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Hi everyone

I'm new to Dark Eldar and looking for a competitive list. Here is my second crack at the list I'm shooting for. What do you think?

Cheers,

fett

HQ:

Archon (355 pts)
Combat Drug Dispenser; Tormentor Helm; Punisher
4x Incubi
Drazhar
Raider; Dark Lance

Wych Dracite (116 pts)
Agoniser; Wych Weapons; Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field

Elite:

Wyches (191 pts)
Wych Weapons; Blaster x2;
Succubus; Agoniser; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades(Squad))
Raider; Dark Lance x1

Troops:

Raider Squad (149 pts)
5x RaiderS; Blaster; Splinter Cannon
Sybarite; Agoniser
Raider, Dark Lance; Horrorfex

Raider Squad (134 pts)
5x Raider Squad; Blaster; Splinter Cannon
Sybarite; Poison Blades
Raider; Dark Lance; Horrorfex

Raider Squad (134 pts)
5x Raider Squad; Blaster; Splinter Cannon
Sybarite; Poison Blades
Raider; Dark Lance; Horrorfex

Warrior Squad (110 pts)
10x Warriors; Blaster x2; Dark Lance x2

Warrior Squad (110 pts)
10x Warriors; Blaster x2; Dark Lance x2

Warrior Squad (110 pts)
10x Warriors; Blaster x2; Dark Lance x2

Fast Attack:

Reaver Jetbike Squad (186 pts)
4x Jetbike; Blaster x2
Succubus; Tormentor Helm; Punisher

Heavy Support:

Ravager (125 pts)
Dark Lance x3; Nightshields

Ravager (140 pts)
Disintegrator x3; Nightshields

Ravager (140 pts)
Disintegrator x3; Nightshields

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Seems pretty standard to me. A guy won Ard Boyz with a list like this last year. DL spam wins the day for Dark Eldar.

I agree with the previous poster that DLance spam is the way to go. I'd still try to fit in another Raider if possible(perhaps with Wyches?), if the points willl allow it. Most of the very strong lists I've faced have tossed as many Armor 10-11 Vehicles onto the tableas possible, dancing around, blocking LoS to each other and causing merry mayhem for the enemy.

Do agree on the 3 Ravagers fully tho, especially with the Nightshields. WTH, my Brightlances are 24"? Keep them, they'll ruin people's days.

fett14622 wrote:
Hi everyone

I'm new to Dark Eldar and looking for a competitive list. Here is my first crack at the list I'm shooting for. What do you think?

Greetings, I'm always willing and able to help with a new DE list. As a bit of general advice I'll point you towards my DE Tactica (link is in my sig) that contains a ton of solid intro level material for prospective DE players.

Dracon (444 pts)
Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades
7 Incubi;Blaster x2
Drazhar
Raider; Dark Lance

Blasters seem a poor idea to me. You're giving up a pair of power weapons and are paying for the right to do so. There is very little reason to want to shoot stuff with your Incubi, they should be focused on getting into combat at all times.

I also think you're burning way too many points in this unit. It's an impressive death star but DE are so fragile that it is too ballsy in my opinion to sink so many points into one location. Between Draz and the Dracon the unit will be a killing machine already, you can easily afford to drop a couple incubi to save points.

Wych Dracite (9#, 301 pts)
Wych Weapons; Combat Drug Dispenser; Punisher; Dodge; Plasma Grenades
6 Wych Retinue; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs
Succubus; Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Combat Drug Dispenser
Raider; Dark Lance

No Tormentor Helm on the Dracite? Grenades on the Dracite but not the Retinue? Disagree with both choices.

I think the Succubus doesn't need a CDD, but have no driving issue against it.

Raider Squad (202 pts)
Blaster; Splinter Cannon
Sybarite; Poison Blades; Terrorfex; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades
Raider; Dark Lance x1; Horrorfex; Screaming Jets

I personally think Screaming Jets tend to be more of a liability then an advantage simply because I prefer weight of fire in the initial turns especially against things like Wolves and IG. Other then that this is a functional setup.

Warrior Squad 15x, (150 pts)
Blaster x2; Dark Lance x2

I like this, though I don't see a drastic need for the extra five bodies, but no real issues.

Warrior Squad 13x, (144 pts)
Shredder x2; Splinter Cannon x2

This feels tacked on.

First off, it's clearly the more aggressive unit of the footsloggers - it needs the extra bodies more then the lance squads since it will be looking to advance forward. Second off, it doesn't mesh well with the rest of the army (long range lance squads who will be stationary and deep striking/meched squads that will hit right away when they show up. This squad will hit about turn 3-4 and will footslog to do it. It's really not functional in this army at all. I'd drop it in a second to take another lance squad or another Gunboat squad.

I approve of your Ravager loadouts.


Overall your big errors as I see them are the following;

1. Not maximising your troops (our troop choices are great and troops are extra powerful this edition due to objectives, use them)
2. Lack of mech (5th edition is a mech game, you could easily use another 3-4 Raiders at 2000 and really increase your functionality)
3. Eggs in a basket assaults (you have two assault tools put in Raiders and that's it [Gunboats with poisoned blades don't count] if your opponent fears assault all he has to do is disable two armor 10 open topped vehicles to prevent an assault. That's *easy* to do with an even somewhat functional 2000 point gunline. You;d do better with busting up these big units into cheaper smaller units which will force your opponent to split his fire more.

As an additional thought to consider - DE kill stuff via special/heavy weapons and upgrade characters. If you can drop an odd 15 regular mook bodies you could afford an additional squad with more of the items that actually help kill stuff. Splinter rifles and Wyches without Agonisers don't do the killing. MSUs do the killing.

And Thor wonders why I do not post more…because there is nothing left to say after your posts!

So as to add other thoughts and/or suggestions to what’s already been posted.

fett14622 wrote:Dracon (444 pts)
Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades
7 Incubi;Blaster x2
Drazhar
Raider; Dark Lance

This is a heck of a hammer unit. You could drop both incubi with blasters and just run 5 incubi and Drazhar and be done with it.

I like to mix the Dracon’s weapon with an agoniser as the incubi (and Drazhar) will be doing most of the killing so you wouldn’t really miss the punisher on the Dracon and now with an agoniser you got something that can hurt higher toughness targets. I understand you probably won’t be charging monstrous creatures but you cannot always control who charges you (plus you save 5 points for not needing a tormentor helm which you can use to buy a horrorfex for the raider!). I also like a trophy rack for the dracon but that is purely optional.

Wych Dracite (9#, 301 pts)
Wych Weapons; Combat Drug Dispenser; Punisher; Dodge; Plasma Grenades
6 Wych Retinue; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs
Succubus; Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Combat Drug Dispenser
Raider; Dark Lance

I like. I would still add a horrorfex to the raider and a trophy rack for the Dracite but again, purely optional.

Raider Squad (202 pts)
Blaster; Splinter Cannon
Sybarite; Poison Blades; Terrorfex; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades
Raider; Dark Lance x1; Horrorfex; Screaming Jets

I have to agree about the screaming jets in this case – they do have some utility but I would not recommend them until you really know what you are doing. I would (on the scale of things) would say take nightshields before screaming jets but I wouldn’t take any for now.

I do not mind the sybarite with poison but the terrorfex is bothering me – I would say either take the arc-angel of pain or take the xenospasm as at least the AoP is cheap enough to not worry about facing fearless armies and that the xenospasm can at least wound something. In my last game a sybarite with a xenospasm killed Ragnar with it (forced him to use his invul save instead of his amor save).

So dropping both terrorfexs and switching them to the AoP and the Xeno saves you 5 points. I know you were hoping for that extra inch or two (compared to the AoP template) from the terrorfex but on average the -2 from the AoP (which is like hitting 3 marines with a horrorfex) is quite nice on average, you only need to hit 1 model and besides, you can’t use any weapon on the turn you deepstrike anyway so you are not missing much. In the greater outlook of things, you will generally get one chance to use those weapons and if you fail to pin then chances are you’re getting charged anyway.

Also, you cannot use plasma grenades with poison blades (says so specifically in the wargear section) so drop the plasma.

Warrior Squad 15x, (150 pts)
Blaster x2; Dark Lance x2

As mentioned above – I’d drop all foot squads to 10 warriors and use the spare points to add an additional 10 man squad with sybarite OR use the spare points to add 2 raiders for the foot squads. You probably do not have the models so I would just add another 10 squad to get that extra scoring unit in.

Warrior Squad 13x, (144 pts)
Shredder x2; Splinter Cannon x2

Interesting – I never had much luck with shredders and yes, I have used them in comparison to blasters. I would just use the shredders as blasters and just tell your opponent that they are blasters, sure they look different but nobody knows the difference anyway so save yourself 10 points in doing so.

Ravagers all look fine.

Hope that gives you some other ideas, good luck and happy hunting!

Kwi wrote:And Thor wonders why I do not post more…because there is nothing left to say after your posts!

This sounds slightly ominous with your new avatar.

Good catch on the terrorfex, I'll second those thoughts wholeheartedly in an attempt to have some of that brilliance rub off on me.

technically kwi, you save 4 points because you still have to buy a pistol. Aggie + pistol = 20+1=21 Punisher + thelm = 20 + 5 = 25.

Regardless, i agree, you should keep incubi retinues at the minimum of 5 guys. i usually run my archon with 4 incubi and drazhar, which is almost always more than enough.

Blasters should not be in your sniper squads- its a waste of points as they almost never see use

Footslogger squad with shredders .. meh. they'll be shot to pieces. they're essentialy ork boyz with better WS / BS - they die way too fast in the open.

Sybarites don't need either grenade type, its another waste of a good ammount of points. they shouldn't really be assaulting, and if they were, they should have aggies not poisoned blades. i give PBs and Tfexes to my sybarites for pinning (removes the need for grenades when pinned) and PB's for a little insurance. if they get charged, your sybarite has a great chance of dealing a wound. it isn't to make it a good cc unit. and haywire grenades are also something that would only be defensive, but seeing as they can only hit immobile dreads, you shouldnt ever need to use them, because if you got charged by the thing it isnt immobile, and you shouldnt be charging it yourself, that's just silly.

I would drop all the screaming jets and put night shields on all your vehicles- they're just too good to pass up. meltaguns will never get 2d6 on you, and infernus pistols from DA / inquisition armies can't shoot you at all! it also saves you a lot from rapidfire S4 / 5 weapons- both of which can still be a serious threat to our paper mache.

Wyches are the only squad that should really have plasma grenades.. and maybe even haywire if you so choose, although this gets expensive. I would take the Drugs off the succubus, as it just gives her opportunity to kill herself... which i do far too often. The way i run my wyches is squads of 6-8 with a dracite, her and succy having agonisers. this makes a squad that can easily take on dreads / mc's what with invuln saves and the ability tp glance / wound anything.

I would also recommend keeping the terrorfexes OR horrorfexes- decide for each squad, you really don't need both. Especially because when you fire the Hfex you cant shoot your DL, which everyone agrees is the way to win.

I would also not put blasters in wych / incubi squads- they want to get the assault, and they want to win the assault in the SECOND round. to do this, they can't shoot too many up, and they have to have the right ammount of punch. i find that if i kill 1 or 2 before assaulting with my wyches they win combat much more frequently... too early, so they get annihilated next turn. Also, instead of having it as a retinue (making you have an obscene 4 HQ choices) make the wyches an elite choice. you can therefore have your dracite decide before the battle if she wants to go in the raider squads or the wyches, and they're elites for KP missions instead of a 4th HQ KP.

5 man raider squads.. bleh, when your raider explodes (yes, not if, when) you just lost most if not all that squad, and it's no longer any use for you, just another free KP. 10 man squads are much more resilient and stay useful longer.

These are all just opinions i've formed from playing for a long time, play test the list all the ways you think can be viable until you find what works best for you

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Blasters should not be in your sniper squads- its a waste of points as they almost never see use

Well, to clarify, Blasters don't *need* to be in your sniper squads in order to save points. With deep striking and outflanking vehicles, the blasters can be awfully nice, especially if you need to move your squad a bit. At the very least it really obligates the enemy to consider what the squad may or may not do to him if he drops in close. Let's also clarify that the Blasters are far superior to the splinter rifles you're giving up (which are even more useless to the squad) so really all we're debating about is 10 points. If you have the 10 points it's a quite solid tactical addition to what the squad is capable of.

I would drop all the screaming jets and put night shields on all your vehicles- they're just too good to pass up.

To clarify, night shields are very good if that is your preference. Considering the OP's lack of vehicles I would tend to support n.shields in this army but only if he really turned it into a dedicated gunline build (with a derth of Raiders I think that's the best bet competitively).

I would also recommend keeping the terrorfexes OR horrorfexes- decide for each squad, you really don't need both. Especially because when you fire the Hfex you cant shoot your DL, which everyone agrees is the way to win.

H.fexes are great when the enemy scores weapon destroyed results (they'll always take the lance first) since it lets you survive an additional weapon destroyed result without getting immobilized and it also gives you options if your lance is busted. Also, if you're going with morale checks in the army, less is not more - double tapping squads to ensure their pinning is very important if you want to generate a full lockdown.

I would also not put blasters in wych / incubi squads- they want to get the assault, and they want to win the assault in the SECOND round. to do this, they can't shoot too many up, and they have to have the right ammount of punch. i find that if i kill 1 or 2 before assaulting with my wyches they win combat much more frequently... too early, so they get annihilated next turn.

That's an interesting thought. I usually run 6 man Wych squads (w. Succubus, Agoniser, and 2 Blasters) and have no problems with getting stuff to die in the second round of combat (sometimes 4th, actually). I would submit that we're probably assaulting differently sized targets. I really advocate the blasters as they allow your Wyches so much more flexibility on the board and also grant the ability to serve as a modified gunboat if you don't have assault options that are worth disembarking for.

Also, instead of having it as a retinue (making you have an obscene 4 HQ choices) make the wyches an elite choice. you can therefore have your dracite decide before the battle if she wants to go in the raider squads or the wyches, and they're elites for KP missions instead of a 4th HQ KP.

A retinue is not an individual kill point. (relevant rules pg 91 of the 5th edition rulebook under Annihilation Victory Conditions)

5 man raider squads.. bleh, when your raider explodes (yes, not if, when) you just lost most if not all that squad, and it's no longer any use for you, just another free KP. 10 man squads are much more resilient and stay useful longer.

If the Raider blows up the Raider squad is next to useless anyway. I run 6 man Raider squads, they work just fine and don't insta-die on vehicle explosion (though they tend to spend the rest of the game hunkered in terrain shooting - but that's what Warriors *should* be doing unless they're a 15-20 man squad)

my experience with wyches is either wonderful or horrible rolling, i never seem to have a middle ground :(
I've never really had times when i wanted or needed the blaster... i try not to rely on lances for my charges, they fail me too often for that to be intelligent in any way shape or form

I apologise, i forget that my game store has crappy local rules where transports arent and retinues are individual KP's in and of themselves, so frequently my advice involves these things ... lol

I just love 10 man warrior squads, it forces the opponent to expend so much more effort to kill them all, especially after the raider gets blown / wrecked and they have cover. Having more guys makes them more resillient, and last longer for the splinter cannon / sybarite / blasters to have more wounds in essence, and more time to do some damage. two or three unseated squads in a combined assault (when all the syb's have PB's!) can actually do some damage in assault, or help out wyches if that's what they're closest too

Thank you everyone for the replies and for pointing me in the Wright direction.
I’m going to revise my list and let you all pick it apart.

I will read Thor665's Dark Eldar Tactica

Future notes.

1) I need more Gunboats
2) Maximize troops
3) One squad of Wyches

Hello mates,

Updated my DE list. Has is improved?

What do you think?

Cheers

Bump, Bump, Bunp

I like the new list. The only potential issue I see with it is that it's short on assault and long on gunline, but that the assault elements don't feel like you intend them to be counter charge units but rather alpha strike. That feels like a potential misstep. I'll note that I usually like running my RJBs really cheap as only an anti-tank option, but have had some decent success with a tooled up Succubus like you have. All the equipment loadouts are ace in my book, I think at this point it's more about making sure the units are suited to the playstyle you wish to play.

Hi,
The only thing I see is I would put the Shadow Field on the Archon, the Dracite already has a 4++ in close combat, which is where you want to be. Your Archon with no ++ is an insta-kill waiting to happen.
Good luck with DE.

Yep. Shdow Field on the archon, and you have to get either a splinter pistol or cc weapon for your dracite. Wych weapons do not count as an additional cc weapon, they merely give you those two special rules. You don't want to lose out on an extra attack because you forgot to spend 1 point.