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The other day I was discussing with my friend some of the things I am probably always going to have in my army. When the Hellcannon came up my friend thought that it was shooting at S3(9), like stone throwers do now. I pointed out to him that in the Doomfire special rule it specifially states that shoots are S5(10). My friend thinks that because the Hellcannon didn't get much changed that it is OP now.

So Dakka, what do you think? Is the Hellcannon OP? Do you think GW might reach down from their tall tower and with a mighty swing bring it low like the once powerful Steam Tank? Perhaps it's point value is too low for what it does and will be increased? I wanna hear what you think!

No the thing is what 250...275 points?

An average stone thrower is around 100...

You're thinking of what it was worth during storms of chaos. It was 265 I think. It's worth roughly twice as much as an average stone thrower now.

just looked its 205 points.

For one more strength on the hole and 2 more on the template for 100 more points, yeah its not overpowered in the least

I don't know how familiar you are with it, but it does more then just that. Units hit have to take a panic test at -1ld. It can shoot w/o crew if it passes a leadership test. if it fails it randomly moves 3d6 to the nearest enemy. It counts as a monster and can fight in combat. On it's misfire chart it can cause all wizard to miscast. it's unbreakable and causes terror(nerfed i know, but still).

Meh the skaven one for 100 points causes the panic test for wounds, its only Str2, but you get no armor saves, and its the large template....

Yes the hell cannon is powerful, but its also 205 points.

You also picked one misfire that could be beneficial to you. Also if you run a wizard it suffers a miscast too, and lots of WoC list do run wizards....The misfire chart for the helcannon is pretty nasty.

Also rampage is a double edged sword, if it does rampage it cannot shoot that turn.

Its a strong unit for sure, but it does have some nasty drawbacks... Also if the crew are killed it almost always rampages cause of its Ld 4 and will cease to function as a stone thrower.

Yes its overpowered. A crazy Stone thrower at S5 that causes Ld at -1, then charges at you and is unbreakable with 5 attacks AND a thunderstomp.

It might seem a little undercosted for what it can do, but in an army with practically no other shooting, no I don't think it's overpowered.

I think it's a bit crazy in close combat, but I'm not too worried about it's shooting. I'm almost glad people are taking more stone throwers in some ways... I faced one in a 1500 point game this week, and it misfired or scattered off the target unit each time!! If you roll a "hit", of course, it's different, but there's a good chance of not doing that...

It has been eratta'd make a monster reaction test if it loses its crew. Not sure how that would interact with it's rampage rule. Something I've been meaning to read up on since I've never had to use those rules before.

If anything, its weaker when compared to the Stank (75 more points gets you T10 and more wounds and save, among many other things) or the Brett Trebuchette (same shot power for less than half the cost). If your friend is complaining about it, then you need to tell him he needs to pack a bottle of vagisil and cup if he ever plays Empire or Dorfs.

I'll agree with the "Not overpowered, but definitely powerful for its price" people. Some people are really underestimating the effect those two points of strength have. From getting about 6-7 wounds on a T3 5+ save unit with a direct hit to causing 17-18. I'd say three times the wounds in a single shot counts as a "good improvement" over a regular stone thrower.

The main thing that's scary about it is its misfire results, including the ever-scary "You all Miscast, watch S10 Stone Throwers and Mortars land all across your army" effect that can happen. Hell, a Hellcannon misfiring can cause as much damage in a single round to the enemy army as four Stone Throwers can do in three. They're already about three times the firepower against T3 units (meaning two of them is about on-par with six assuming focusing on individual targets), and T4 they're not much worse still being about twice as effective (almost three if they have a save).

If I had to assign negative things to the Hellcannon, they are:
1) You have so few of them. If someone uses a Storm Banner, has some good War Machine Hunters, or lots of already weak units you want thinned, it's not going to keep up to demand.
2) Their cost. Two of them can be almost six other stone throwers' cost. While at T3 it's pretty much on-par, at T4 it's a bit of a loss.
3) A third the normal wounds against shooting. From nine wounds (six machine, three crew) to three.

The miscast thing isnt enemy only tho... Its just as bad for most WoC players, especially in 8th where you want to take at least one or two casters (especially WoC, their casters are nuts).

Minsc wrote:has some good War Machine Hunters

What army has Warmachine Hunters that doesn't make the Hellcannon go, "How nice. They deliver."

ShivanAngel wrote:The miscast thing isnt enemy only tho... Its just as bad for most WoC players, especially in 8th where you want to take at least one or two casters (especially WoC, their casters are nuts).

Unless you worship Khorne.
Then Miscasts are only with your enemies!

I think it will be a necessity for WoC players (its the only real shooting option we have).

Part of the balance of the Hellcannon is that unlike, say, Dwarfs or Empire, the rest of your army is absolutely gagging to get into close combat. Thus, your shooting, while important, has to be balanced against the presence of your troops in amongst the enemy.

Dwarfs or Empire, on the other hand, can choose to take a LOT of shooting troops, and deliberately avoid combat and maximize their time spend shooting at you.If you gave them such a powerful war machine, they would use it to further reinforce a gun line.

In the Warriors of Chaos army, however, your impressive Hellcannon has to be careful about smashing your own troops, which can't afford to just sit back and shoot the opposing army. Thus, the more powerful shooting is 'balanced' (hate to say that with GW) by less opportunity to use it.

For its randomness I'd say its fine as it is. If it goes on a rampage after some war-machine hunters thats 1 more turn it wont be firing at your main force.

I'd pick stubborn Ld 9 crewed cannons for 100 points over a Hellcannon any day.