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as the title states....

HQ: Lysander
Libby (null zone/ ????)

Troops: 10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino
10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino
5 man sniper scouts (cammo cloaks/missle launcher)

Elites: 5 assault termies (thunder hammer/storm shields)
w/Land raider crusader (multimelta)
Dreadnaught (lascannon/powerfist/hvy bolter)

Fast: Landspeeder (multimelta/hvy flamer)
Landspeeder (multimelta/hvy flamer)

Heavy: Vindicator (siege shield)
Preditor (TL autocannon/lascannon sponsons)
Preditor (TL autocannon/lascannon sponsons)

total:1990

C&C please.

Grimgob wrote:Lysander Libby (null zone/ ????)

Perhaps, as a SM nooB, you might try *just* the libby, although, Lys is tough as nails. I'd dump one though.

Grimgob wrote:Troops: 10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino
10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino

I'd save points on the LasCans, and just get MLs or MMs. Plus, there's usually a Cover Save for whichever vehicle you're shooting at. I really haven't seen a SM LasCan in over a year.

Grimgob wrote:Elites: 5 assault termies (thunder hammer/storm shields) w/Land raider crusader (multimelta)

Add EA, to ensure the LR does its job: delivering ThunderH fun.

Grimgob wrote:Dreadnaught (lascannon/powerfist/hvy bolter)

A LasCan is anti-Tank and the HB is for infantry. Since the Dread can't shoot two different targets, this wastes a gun. Focus its purpose. Either all Anti-T or all anti-I.

Grimgob wrote: Vindicator (siege shield)

Save points; blades are enough.

You've only three Scoring Units for 2k, and that means a smart opponent (WAAC) will focus on trashing the tacticals & scouts and then you're playing for a Draw at best. With the MM on the LRC, the two MM speeders, The Vin and Preds, you've plenty of anti-T. I'd dump the dread, and an HQ for another tactical in a rhino, stripped down if necessary.

There are probably a lot of other things I could point out in your list, but for the sake of emphasis, I'm going to harp one one point.

You have a very poor amount of scoring models. Tac squads are awesome, no doubt, but scouts don't hold objectives very well unless they're placed backfield. Even the, pray your opponent doesn't have any outflankers or deepstrikers.

In 2 of the three game types, your opponent can just steam roll your troops, giving you no way to win. Even in annihilation 5 scouts are just a free kill point unless they have camo cloaks and a fortified position from a techmarine.

You should aim for at least mechanized 2 Tac Squads.

hi

i would say you need more troops, all well and good with 2 tactical squads and a scout squad but for any type of game SM troops are good, boost your scout squad up to ten and put 2 tactical squads in rhinos (which you have done)or 1 tactical and 1 scout squad. for this I say drop lysander and librarian and replace with tigirus so you are dropping 50 points and having a BETTER librarian. because you are adding 75 points and we have only dropped 50 take out a predator which is 155 points and put in a whirlwind. now with land speeders i say no to that and I say replace 1 with 3 bikes and another with a techmarine and 2 servitors. so you would have...

HQ

Tigurius - 230

TROOPS

2x tactical squads w/ 2 rhinos - 410

1x scout squad -145

ELITES

assault termi squad w/ land raider - 430

dreadnought - 145

techmarine - 75

FAST ATTACK

assault squad 100

bike squad - 90

HEAVY SUPPORT

predator - 105

vindicator - 115

whirlwind -85

------------------------------------
1980

give all the sergeants melta bombs and you have 1995

madman12367

Brothererekose wrote:I'd save points on the LasCans, and just get MLs or MMs. Plus, there's usually a Cover Save for whichever vehicle you're shooting at. I really haven't seen a SM LasCan in over a year.

What does this have to do with anything? Its not like he wont be getting a cover save vs krak missiles as well? And if you are counting cover save the MM really becomes worse, you will hit your target less times with the MM...That being said, the ML is most likely the best idea since it has a lot more flixibility (frag/krak mode) than the lascannon.

As for the list, the Lascannon dread is overcosted. I would take something else, like a AC dread to help your preds with some transport poping. The Vindicator can be scraped imo, it will not achieve that much. Close range and side AV 11 is not a good combo it gets even worse if you are only taking one. So drop the vindicator and use the pts to upgrade the scouts to a tactical squad with a rhino instead. As already pointed out, Lysander is a bad ass moffo in CC but you already have TH/SS termies which is usually enough. I would consider droping him.

Thanks for all the advice. First let me say I should have strated that I'm building an Imperial fist army, so I'm pretty set on taking lysander for fluff reasons (and again I know vindis are not that good because of scatter but I wanted at least 1 for fluff reasons). Second, the ML are probably better as tedurur said for more flexibility. I was also thinking of going with plasma cannons. The dread was going to camp out with the scouts to help with deepstrikers/outflankers (I was also looking into the AC dread as I might go with this). Lysander has bolster defences to work with the scouts cammo cloaks to give them a 2+cover. I would like another Tac squad in a rhino but wont be buying any more stuff till a little later. right now everything is magnitized and all I have left is: pedro cantor, 5 vanguard vets, 5 assault marines, a drop pod, a box of devistators and 3 scout bikers .

Grimgob wrote:as the title states....

HQ: Lysander
Libby (null zone/ ????)

Troops: 10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino
10 man Tac (meltagun/lascannon/powerfist) w/rhino
5 man sniper scouts (cammo cloaks/missle launcher)

Elites: 5 assault termies (thunder hammer/storm shields)
w/Land raider crusader (multimelta)
Dreadnaught (lascannon/powerfist/hvy bolter)

Fast: Landspeeder (multimelta/hvy flamer)
Landspeeder (multimelta/hvy flamer)

Heavy: Vindicator (siege shield)
Preditor (TL autocannon/lascannon sponsons)
Preditor (TL autocannon/lascannon sponsons)

total:1990

C&C please.

I run a list something like this, though I prefer multiple vindicators. They will cost less, and they can put the hurt out on enemy armor/heavy infantry.

I would really look into taking three vindicators, not only is it a good choice, it seems to fit the imperial fist fluff well enough.

Out of personal preference I would take the redeemer, since you're getting as close as possible, though it is all the same, so long as you don't take a godhammer.

Use those ten points for dozer blades on the rhinos, or vindicators if you get them.

I think you have something like a 4% chance to fail a dangerous terrain test with dozer blades? Hardly worth the points for siege shield if you can still put other dozers in the list.

Other than that I like it, it has alot of bite, though I am still on the fence of power weapon and melta bombs versus power fist. /shrug...

I wouldn't touch madman's list with a ten foot pole...

I have to agree with the sentiment that you don't ahve enough scoring units at 2k. Lysander is pretty good as and HQ but the libby seems out of place in this list. Your squads, dred, and preds weapons load outs need a little tinkering. I would follow the advice given by the others on this. As a new player you may find a few of the articles on my blog to be helpful. Check it out, the link is in my signature.

2000 points:

Librarian
Null Zone & The Avenge
Terminator Armour w/ Storm Shield
140

ELITES


Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 5 TH/SS
Land Raider Crusader w/ MM
460

Terminator Squad (5 man)
x 5 Chainfists
Heavy Flamer
Land Raider
480

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
Rhino
220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino
215

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Plasma
Flamer
Lascannon
Rhino
225

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator
Autocannon & Lascannons
120

Predator
Autocannon & Lascannons
120


try that

Corennus wrote:2000 points:

Librarian
Null Zone & The Avenge
Terminator Armour w/ Storm Shield
140

ELITES


Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 5 TH/SS
Land Raider Crusader w/ MM
460

Terminator Squad (5 man)
x 5 Chainfists
Heavy Flamer
Land Raider
480

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
Rhino
220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino
215

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Plasma
Flamer
Lascannon
Rhino
225

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator
Autocannon & Lascannons
120

Predator
Autocannon & Lascannons
120


try that

A) That doesn't have lysander.

B) That second unit of terminators is stupid, it would cost less to put more TH/SS terminators in a land raider with a MM on top.

C) Why a combi-melta? They're terribad, ten points for a one-shot gun. Melta bombs are cheaper and better. I don't even know why you're taking flamers on the tactical squads, they're either over-kill or not enough with large squads, flamers work best in combat squads riding razorbacks.

D) Combi-plasma? Oh look, you kill a marine. Just get a combi-flamer if you're getting a combi-weapon. Alot more potential.

Don't really know why this shines over the OP's list. Two AV 14 tanks? Sure, though you're sacrificing quite a bit.

Do not only use one vindicator. It's too unreliable. Castled with the preds, maybe. But considering the preds are long range and the vindi is short there will be very little use if you castle them together. So again I say NO to the single vindi.

Just my 2 cents. If you are not going to take advantage of the extra capacity of the LRC, I would take a LRR. 10 points cheaper and when delivering termies, it is really nice to drop a S6 AP3 template to soften something up before assaulting.

i dont like the dred, i think AC is much better than a LC since LC can really suck against hoard since you only get one shot, whereas an AC can take out most tanks, and be better at dealing with inf. since you get more shots.

i think i would get 3 tac squads in rhinos, then build the army around that so you have a good starting stone for the rest of your army, then add termies or another unit to help with assault, and maybe some tanks or land speeders to deal with tanks and any extra points of something which can bring it all together.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i would say use yr list but take out the tac LC and the dred and add in a tac squad with melta and rhino. and maybe switch one of the landspeeders if you need more points.