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Pretty simple. is it possible for my friendly firedragons (eldar anti-tank specialists) to run in my LR?

nope

unless its a Superheavy in apocalypse then i'm 99% certain you can't do that...

otherwise i'd be fielding as many Chaos termis as i can in my mates Landraider.... Crusader i think?
the one with the stupidly large transport Capac...

There are no rulebook rules for team games so it really is up to you on how things like transports and abilities that effect an area work with allied armies. Remember though if abilities jump to other armies you get things like fateweaver allowing termies to reroll a 2+ save.

Well, it's possible.
thanks for the help.

No rules for it so agree on something with your group. You might also have to think about special rules affecting friendly units and whether ICs can join the other player's units.

Lorne wrote:There are no rulebook rules for team games so it really is up to you on how things like transports and abilities that effect an area work with allied armies. Remember though if abilities jump to other armies you get things like fateweaver allowing termies to reroll a 2+ save.

I think there is one that specify that the rules for one codex do not affect units in a different codex unless they are hostile actions (I think largely so people wont take rules from one SM codex and try to apply them to another). I seem to remember Gwar making an eloquent argument about this a few weks ago.

As for a friendly game I simply suggest not to allow allied units inside non-owned transports unless those two armies share turns. Saves problems with rules conflicts in general.

basically, it's legal in apoc and with your opponent's permission ahead of time in normal 40k (as is anything really). the way we do it in our group for team games is that we try to put the same armies on the same side (i.e. vanilla SM with vanilla SM). they can share transports during the game (but not deployment) and can be joined by IC's from the other army as well as be affected by rules that say allied/friendly/joined units. if the armies are similar but not exactly the same (like vanilla SM and SW), they can share things/effects as long as they both have access to the exact same thing.

warboss wrote:basically, it's legal in apoc ...

That's questionable, actually.

Regular games of 40K don't cover team battles, so if that's what you're playing, you'll need to figure it out for yourselves.

In Apocalypse, the closest we get to a rule that covers it is the one that says that each army's special rules only apply to that army. To me, the intention of that rule is that even though two armies may be on the same side for the battle, they are intended to be separate, self-contained forces. Players are supposed to be in control of their own forces, and putting one of your squads into a team-mate's vehicle causes issues with that control.

So I would go with no, you can't ride in an allied vehicle, except where those allies (as in the case of DH and WH) are actually a part of the same FoC.

Just throwing this out there: WHY would you like to do this? The Wave Serpent is a much better delivery-system for them.

Well, we're facing an anti-light tank/anti infantry army.

I don't think my opponent is even packing multi meltas, or missiles yet he is Space marine.

so I think I could beat him, if I can take out his LR executioners with some high damage infantry.

I agree with insaniak's assessment.

On an OT comment... I remember a team game versus eldar & CSM. Our two opponents got into an argument with each other and wow they got really pissy. We had agreed to let them put fire dragons in an LR. The eldar player was so angry at his team mate that he declared he was going to shoot the LR while embarked inside it. They argued about that for a long time then the eldar player went ahead and shot inside the tank, destroying it. All the fire dragons then died in the ensuing explosion. It was really funny.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:I agree with insaniak's assessment.

On an OT comment... I remember a team game versus eldar & CSM. Our two opponents got into an argument with each other and wow they got really pissy. We had agreed to let them put fire dragons in an LR. The eldar player was so angry at his team mate that he declared he was going to shoot the LR while embarked inside it. They argued about that for a long time then the eldar player went ahead and shot inside the tank, destroying it. All the fire dragons then died in the ensuing explosion. It was really funny.

G

So he shot his own team mate due to a hissy fit??? and killed his own guys at the same time. Would of loved to have seen that, just to take the piss out of them. Little confused why did the eldar player get huffy if he got to embark into the LR?? did the CSM run the LR away from where the eldar needed them??, BTW did they lose with the major loss or did they pack up and leave?

ON TOPIC: At home or at a gaming club/store, as long as it is agreed by all then I wouldnt have a prob. As I too then would get to do the same, but I'd probably use my own transports anyways.

an argument could be made that the entry says it can transport X models in power armor and eldar don't wear power armor... but I doubt that would cross many people's minds.

Well, in a semi-formal tourney, [fully painted army, 3,500 points codex, rulebook and army list. timed 3 hour games.]

For what it's worth, allied grey knights can jump in a IG chimera, so there is some prior case for it. That's one player using special rules though, and on the other hand, saying that Allied rules from WH/DH are depricated is sort of an understatement.

insaniak wrote:

warboss wrote:basically, it's legal in apoc ...

That's questionable, actually.

Regular games of 40K don't cover team battles, so if that's what you're playing, you'll need to figure it out for yourselves.

In Apocalypse, the closest we get to a rule that covers it is the one that says that each army's special rules only apply to that army. To me, the intention of that rule is that even though two armies may be on the same side for the battle, they are intended to be separate, self-contained forces. Players are supposed to be in control of their own forces, and putting one of your squads into a team-mate's vehicle causes issues with that control.

So I would go with no, you can't ride in an allied vehicle, except where those allies (as in the case of DH and WH) are actually a part of the same FoC.

Ah, but what if it is my Fire Dragons, and my L:andraider in an Apoc game? Would that make it legal since control is no longer an issue?

Captain Solon wrote:Well, in a semi-formal tourney, [fully painted army, 3,500 points codex, rulebook and army list. timed 3 hour games.]

In that case it is entirely up to whoever is running the tournament.

We require a ld test to use special rules by other armies during team games.

No one likes to see ork lootas drop 45 shots with Markerlight support raining down on them, but damn it is fun to set up.

daedalus wrote:For what it's worth, allied grey knights can jump in a IG chimera, so there is some prior case for it. That's one player using special rules though, and on the other hand, saying that Allied rules from WH/DH are depricated is sort of an understatement.

I also already pointed out that allies that are a part of the same FOC are a slightly different issue...

jbunny wrote:Ah, but what if it is my Fire Dragons, and my L:andraider in an Apoc game? Would that make it legal since control is no longer an issue?

That would then come down to how you decide to play it. Some players won't have a problem with mix-and-matching, some will want to only put appropriate units in transports.

My friends and I usually play fluffy allied games. There was one mission in our campaign where an SM armored unit had to escort some IG from one side of the board to escape the opposite side. So we put the IG CCS in my land raider to keep it safe.

But as everyone else said, agree beforehand and it should be fine.

There was a casual observer that came up to the table and started to complain stating that eldar & CSM would never ally under any circumstances. I think he was a friend of the dude playing CSM. the eldar player asked the observer to scram then & stop bugging him about pointless fluff then the CSM player said it was okay, don't worry about it. That's when a BIG argument broke between them... Basically the CSM player said he had wanted to bring Necrons instead but that the eldar player insisted he bring his Chaos. It turned into a shouting match then the eldar player fired his meltas inside the landraider. He wanted a cover save for his Dragons but the Chaos player said no way. They pretty much lost the game right then and there.

G

Eberious wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:I agree with insaniak's assessment.

On an OT comment... I remember a team game versus eldar & CSM. Our two opponents got into an argument with each other and wow they got really pissy. We had agreed to let them put fire dragons in an LR. The eldar player was so angry at his team mate that he declared he was going to shoot the LR while embarked inside it. They argued about that for a long time then the eldar player went ahead and shot inside the tank, destroying it. All the fire dragons then died in the ensuing explosion. It was really funny.

G

So he shot his own team mate due to a hissy fit??? and killed his own guys at the same time. Would of loved to have seen that, just to take the piss out of them. Little confused why did the eldar player get huffy if he got to embark into the LR?? did the CSM run the LR away from where the eldar needed them??, BTW did they lose with the major loss or did they pack up and leave?

ON TOPIC: At home or at a gaming club/store, as long as it is agreed by all then I wouldnt have a prob. As I too then would get to do the same, but I'd probably use my own transports anyways.

To be honest, I'd allow the Fire Dragons to ride in the LR simply because it's a cool bit of Imerio-Eldar temporary alliance imagary, similar to the coolness of captured 'Fexes storming out of the back of a battle fortress, etc.

Probably allowed in apoc if you ask me, although the ally transport system may only apply to super-heavies.

House rule time, basically!