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Hello guys, I have been noticing a lot of times that IG players have a hard time dealing with orc armies especially in small games because orcs are super duper cheap in points, and lots of the IG players have this fear of close combat.

I will give you couple good unit combinations and recommendations but most of these tactics are for games 500-1000 because I myself do not like big games unless if you play an apocalypse or planet strike games, or then you play with very good friends.

Rule number one: I will point out the obvious rite now but I just need to do it as a reminder.
Orcs suck at range fire (Though they do have good fire power with some units)
Orcs are easy to kill (Most are)
Orc vechils are easy to destroy (But they do give a lot of damage)
Orcs are good in close combat.

Now when orcs get into combat they will kill gak loads of your units (This is the point where lots of you guard players have a nervous break down) let me remind you that Imperial Guards must die in order to win they are not space marines. Imperial Guard player... You must learn how to do mad and crazy sacrifices in order to win. Or other wise you will loose trying to preserve your units.

Deployment and objectives: Many tactics also count by deployment and objectives. When you do deployment try to estimate that it would take at least 3 turns for them to charge (believe me just this is effective because three turns is a lot of time for you think of new tactics before hell charges you). Objectives also matter a lot. Now Annihilation mite be a bit more annoying because orc squads are huge even though its easy to kill them they are big numbers and sometimes you won’t even get the chance to take out a whole squad. But I will talk about annihilation later. I will start with objectives because I think they are fun

Now for orcs objectives are really hard to hold because they have to hold there ground....Which means? No charging. So usually the orc player will just say you know what Ill just pawn those hummies. Sadly for the guard players...It works . But at least its not annihilation which means no kill points, which means you can sacrifice your units to win.

Now orcs are strong in masses, and the objectives are usually spread out (Multiple objectives) best thing is to do is to spread out your units which causes the orcs to scatter around the map and without a whole horde they are not invincible anymore.

I will give you a 750 point army below:

Company command squad- 50 pts + regimental standard 15 pts (effective because you re roll moral checks) + Vox caster 15 pts (Other combinations of weapons and armor you would like to have)

3 infantry squads 180 pts (lasguns only) But give them 1 vox caster per each squad 15 pts in all (re roll orders)
give all of your sergeants a power weapon (power fits are better) 10 pts per power weapon and 15 per a fist.
Give one infantry a commissar 35 pts (Improves moral which is a bigger chance that your squad can do an order)

2 veteran squads 140 pts in all plus power weapons or fist to your sergeants and give three grenade launchers for each squad 5 pts per a grenadier.
2 Griffons 75 pts each (give them all Heavy flamers)

This is a very good army and with this you can do a lot of tactics its very simple and easy

Griffons have a very good range and they have a large blast, also you can re roll if you miss. its a strenght 5 so it will be really effective at disrupting orc infantries while they try to charge at you. your HQ must be within 12 inches of at least 2 infantry squads (Make sure that one of them has the commissar) and give them each time the first rank fire and second rank fire order. It will improve your chances by gunning down the orcs before they even get to close combat. with vox casters you can re roll the LD ship test when the squads get the order. If you are confused read the Imperial Guard Codex (pg 30 and pg 36 you can do all those orders.)

now your veterans have grenade launchers and I have noticed that in an orc squad there are a lot of units so the orc player just scrambles them all together when he moves them. so all those grenade launchers your veterans have.....are going to be still very effective even though they are small blasts. Also if your orc player is smart he will use transport vechils which is a bad thing because they can get into close combat in two turns. if you fire your grenade launchers Krack (S 6) it will glance the transports because orc vehicles have a pretty sucky amour and with a S 6 you can glance the vehicles (Think of the odds 6 grenade launchers firing and they cant get a shaken?) this will for sure save you up time.

Why not flamers?
Flamers are really effective but for different tactics. The tactics that I usually use it spread out and fire. Flamer tactics are a bit more move up. Also you guys should know the Waaagh special rule. If the orc player is smart he will do the waaagh when he will in the range of your flamer and he will charge you immediately. Which means your flamers are no use and they were a waste of points.

Why not improve amour for veterans?
Believe me when orc will charge you...a 4+ won’t save you.

Aren’t Hellhounds effective?
Well guys I hear this all the time from pros that Hell Hounds rule against orcs....I say that. Hell Hellhounds are good (don’t get me wrong) but lots of ork players like to give their units power claws and after couple uses from a Hell hound it will be charged and destroyed. But then again that’s just me. If you guys are thinking of having orc barbeque get your self three scout sentinels and give them heavy flamers. Not only they are going to burn the green skins they will do well in close combat when they will get charged.

What happens when orcs go heavy?
Simply get your self stronger vehicles. Instead having a Griffon use Basilisks, perhaps they do cost more but hey! S 9

What happens if those bustards’ arnt dead yet and they are about to charge?
best thing to do is send a squad forward fire at the orcs (Not rapid fire) and charge them your IGs will die but they mite hold the hord just for one turn before the last turn and you are holding the objective...AND YOU WIN! Its better that they will charge one squad then just charging your whole front line rite?

I really hope this helped you some how. If you think my tactics suck tell me why, and tell me your tactics please perhaps yours are a lot better. And if you played trying these tactics please tell me if they worked (: . Also any questions just ask, if you guys think this was helpful I will make a new topic of how to win Orcs in Annihilation.

Well, actually, Hellhounds work really well. What you do is take advantage of the fact that they are a fast vehicle. Move the full 12" per turn, and take advantage of their ranged flamer. This can put a 24" space between the ork mob and you vehicle. and they can't move 24" in one turn. So just kite them.

How would you deal with killer kans or ork dreadnoughts?

Kolath wrote:How would you deal with killer kans or ork dreadnoughts?

I explained it use artiallry but stronger. Basalisk for example beacuse its a strength 9 large blast.


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Gavo wrote:Well, actually, Hellhounds work really well. What you do is take advantage of the fact that they are a fast vehicle. Move the full 12" per turn, and take advantage of their ranged flamer. This can put a 24" space between the ork mob and you vehicle. and they can't move 24" in one turn. So just kite them.

Indeed but as I said its just me I simply dont like the fact to do a hit and run tactic. Beacuse sadly after you move 12 inches you cant fire on that turn and I think that kinda sucks. But its just me.

fast tanks can shoot up after moving 12'' they cant if they moved 18''.

He's right, also if you swerve the mobile barbeque away from your battle line then the orks will either ignore it and be lined up nicely, or will be diverted and you just thined there ranks. Is that worth the price of a hellhound? I say yes. Because countless of my boys have fallen to them.

bob the heretic wrote:

Kolath wrote:How would you deal with killer kans or ork dreadnoughts?

I explained it use artiallry but stronger. Basalisk for example beacuse its a strength 9 large blast.

1 HWS with Autocannons and orders quickly taught an ork friend about target saturation- either 2-3 squads of kans or none

Hint: The lesson isn't about target saturation, its about using the correct tools. You'd be much better off with twinlinked autocannons via orders/HWS or Hydra's than a earthshaker shell (which oh-so-loves almost straight annihilating squads in a single (accurate) shot)

bob the heretic wrote:

Gavo wrote:Well, actually, Hellhounds work really well. What you do is take advantage of the fact that they are a fast vehicle. Move the full 12" per turn, and take advantage of their ranged flamer. This can put a 24" space between the ork mob and you vehicle. and they can't move 24" in one turn. So just kite them.

Indeed but as I said its just me I simply dont like the fact to do a hit and run tactic. Beacuse sadly after you move 12 inches you cant fire on that turn and I think that kinda sucks. But its just me.

Which is why I said they are fast. You move 12" and fire the main gun.

Jihallah wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:

Kolath wrote:How would you deal with killer kans or ork dreadnoughts?

I explained it use artiallry but stronger. Basalisk for example beacuse its a strength 9 large blast.

1 HWS with Autocannons and orders quickly taught an ork friend about target saturation- either 2-3 squads of kans or none

Hint: The lesson isn't about target saturation, its about using the correct tools. You'd be much better off with twinlinked autocannons via orders/HWS or Hydra's than a earthshaker shell (which oh-so-loves almost straight annihilating squads in a single (accurate) shot)

Well the EarthShake cannon never fails (: aoutocanons, if you miss with them then you miss. with artillary you mite even want to scatter a bit just hit the otehr orks around the vechil beacuse the players cant bother to spread them out they just throw them in a bunch (:.

bob the heretic wrote:

Jihallah wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:

Kolath wrote:How would you deal with killer kans or ork dreadnoughts?

I explained it use artiallry but stronger. Basalisk for example beacuse its a strength 9 large blast.

1 HWS with Autocannons and orders quickly taught an ork friend about target saturation- either 2-3 squads of kans or none

Hint: The lesson isn't about target saturation, its about using the correct tools. You'd be much better off with twinlinked autocannons via orders/HWS or Hydra's than a earthshaker shell (which oh-so-loves almost straight annihilating squads in a single (accurate) shot)

Well the EarthShake cannon never fails (: aoutocanons, if you miss with them then you miss. with artillary you mite even want to scatter a bit just hit the otehr orks around the vechil beacuse the players cant bother to spread them out they just throw them in a bunch (:.

If the Earth Shaker misses, then it misses. the Hydra is Twin Linked...rerolls...

ac
Which is why I said they are fast. You move 12" and fire the main gun.

Where does it say its a fast moving vechil in the codex? I have been checking it and it doesnt say that any where. I have been reading page 50 where the rules for the Hell Hound are and it doesnt say anything about the fast vechil special rule. Please tell me where is the rule beacuse if you are rite I am getting me some hellhounds (:


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If the Earth Shaker misses, then it misses. the Hydra is Twin Linked...rerolls...

Hmm... you are rite in some cases but I prefer artillaty. Beacuse I I said if it scatters it is sometimes good. But if you are unlucky with aouto cannons then you hit nothing.

bob the heretic wrote:

ac
Which is why I said they are fast. You move 12" and fire the main gun.

Where does it say its a fast moving vechil in the codex? I have been checking it and it doesnt say that any where. I have been reading page 50 where the rules for the Hell Hound are and it doesnt say anything about the fast vechil special rule. Please tell me where is the rule beacuse if you are rite I am getting me some hellhounds (:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

If the Earth Shaker misses, then it misses. the Hydra is Twin Linked...rerolls...

Hmm... you are rite in some cases but I prefer artillaty. Beacuse I I said if it scatters it is sometimes good. But if you are unlucky with aouto cannons then you hit nothing.

For the fast vehicles, check the BBB(main rulebook) pg. 70.

bob the heretic wrote:Where does it say its a fast moving vechil in the codex? I have been checking it and it doesnt say that any where.

Have you tried page 101 where the unit type says Vehicle (tank, fast)

I think it should be noted that orks are now guard on crack. By this I mean, their guys are even cheaper, they can spam weapons harder, and they're stuff is even weaker than the guard is. The ultimate glass cannon army.

You can talk about how many shots+assault chops a mob of shoota boyz gets and how many PKs can be liberally sprinkled around, and how many attacks against tanks lootas get. Likewise, you can talk about how many boyz and trukks they put down, and how they start out with fearless. All of this is true, but it ignores the way you kill orks.

The way you kill orks is to kill orks. Once they start loosing vehicles by the fistfuls and their boyz dip out of fearless mode, they start to hurt, and hurt fast. You can do some killing of their stuff at range, due to how weak it is, but where you can really clear orks off the board is in close.

For example, if you throw popcorn at them, when they come out of assault you can easily flamer a boy squad out of existance, or charge it with a power blob. Boyz waaaaaughing is scary. You getting the charge on them is not. Likewise, most ork vehicles can be neutralized with all of those free frag grenades that your troopers get and even plasma guns will make relatively short work out of their flimsey, flimsey vehicles.

As the OP mentions, it's really more of a matter of getting over the psychological impact of their alpha strike on turn 2 or 3. If you can keep your head cool, you should be able to snuff out big swatches of their army with ease, assuming you brought the proper tools.

My friend has found a great way to deal with most of my Orks. Lots of heavy weapon squads. Lots of regular troopers. First Rank, Second Rank. Is simple, but effective.

HoverBoy wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:Where does it say its a fast moving vechil in the codex? I have been checking it and it doesnt say that any where.

Have you tried page 101 where the unit type says Vehicle (tank, fast)

i Think that Bob was asking about the Special rules that deal with weapons firing and moving fast vehicles.

bob the heretic wrote: 3 infantry squads 180 pts (lasguns only) But give them 1 vox caster per each squad 15 pts in all (re roll orders)

Naked infantry squads really really blows. When you have already payed for the guys, the extra cost for the weapons are mandatory

bob the heretic wrote: give all of your sergeants a power weapon (power fits are better) 10 pts per power weapon and 15 per a fist.

Can't have power fists in infantry squads. Power weapons in blobs are good, but not against orks

bob the heretic wrote: Give one infantry a commissar 35 pts (Improves moral which is a bigger chance that your squad can do an order)

Why would you spend 35 pts for 1 point of Ld on a squad that won't really benefit much from orders? Commissars are for blobs, not for orders.

bob the heretic wrote: 2 veteran squads 140 pts in all plus power weapons or fist to your sergeants and give three grenade launchers for each squad 5 pts per a grenadier.

Powerfist/weapon on veterans is not worth it most of the time, they don't have the bodies to survive assaults. If you are going to have one of them, use the powerfist (if it is possible to use it with vets, don't have my codex at the moment)

bob the heretic wrote: 2 Griffons 75 pts each (give them all Heavy flamers)

These are good at low pts level

bob the heretic wrote: Aren’t Hellhounds effective?
Well guys I hear this all the time from pros that Hell Hounds rule against orcs....I say that. Hell Hellhounds are good (don’t get me wrong) but lots of ork players like to give their units power claws and after couple uses from a Hell hound it will be charged and destroyed. But then again that’s just me. If you guys are thinking of having orc barbeque get your self three scout sentinels and give them heavy flamers. Not only they are going to burn the green skins they will do well in close combat when they will get charged.

You have a faulty knowlegde of the rules when it comes to this one, but that has already been handled by others. Hellhounds are awesomesauce against orks.

bob the heretic wrote: What happens if those bustards’ arnt dead yet and they are about to charge?
best thing to do is send a squad forward fire at the orcs (Not rapid fire) and charge them your IGs will die but they mite hold the hord just for one turn before the last turn and you are holding the objective...AND YOU WIN! Its better that they will charge one squad then just charging your whole front line rite?

Do not charge the orks unless you have units geared for fighting (power blobs/ogrys ec), simply block them from multicharging by sacrificing a squad. If you charge the orks, they will kill off your unit, run them down (gain some inches with consolidation), and will then be in a better position next turn.

Illumini wrote:

bob the heretic wrote: 3 infantry squads 180 pts (lasguns only) But give them 1 vox caster per each squad 15 pts in all (re roll orders)

Naked infantry squads really really blows. When you have already payed for the guys, the extra cost for the weapons are mandatory

bob the heretic wrote: give all of your sergeants a power weapon (power fits are better) 10 pts per power weapon and 15 per a fist.

Can't have power fists in infantry squads. Power weapons in blobs are good, but not against orks

bob the heretic wrote: Give one infantry a commissar 35 pts (Improves moral which is a bigger chance that your squad can do an order)

Why would you spend 35 pts for 1 point of Ld on a squad that won't really benefit much from orders? Commissars are for blobs, not for orders.

bob the heretic wrote: 2 veteran squads 140 pts in all plus power weapons or fist to your sergeants and give three grenade launchers for each squad 5 pts per a grenadier.

Powerfist/weapon on veterans is not worth it most of the time, they don't have the bodies to survive assaults. If you are going to have one of them, use the powerfist (if it is possible to use it with vets, don't have my codex at the moment)

bob the heretic wrote: 2 Griffons 75 pts each (give them all Heavy flamers)

These are good at low pts level

bob the heretic wrote: Aren’t Hellhounds effective?
Well guys I hear this all the time from pros that Hell Hounds rule against orcs....I say that. Hell Hellhounds are good (don’t get me wrong) but lots of ork players like to give their units power claws and after couple uses from a Hell hound it will be charged and destroyed. But then again that’s just me. If you guys are thinking of having orc barbeque get your self three scout sentinels and give them heavy flamers. Not only they are going to burn the green skins they will do well in close combat when they will get charged.

You have a faulty knowlegde of the rules when it comes to this one, but that has already been handled by others. Hellhounds are awesomesauce against orks.

bob the heretic wrote: What happens if those bustards’ arnt dead yet and they are about to charge?
best thing to do is send a squad forward fire at the orcs (Not rapid fire) and charge them your IGs will die but they mite hold the hord just for one turn before the last turn and you are holding the objective...AND YOU WIN! Its better that they will charge one squad then just charging your whole front line rite?

Do not charge the orks unless you have units geared for fighting (power blobs/ogrys ec), simply block them from multicharging by sacrificing a squad. If you charge the orks, they will kill off your unit, run them down (gain some inches with consolidation), and will then be in a better position next turn.

Okay seriosuly dude you need to pay attention to what I wrote.

I will start from the top to the bottom of all those qoutes you did on.
Infantry is powerfull with the first rank fire second rank fire as I have already explained that. They arnt bad believe me. Obviously you havent tried the effectivness of that rule.
Number two (My bad about the power fists) But Power weapons are effective against orcs. If the orks wonet kill all your troops in the first charge then the last remaining troops will kill them. Beacuse of the gakky armour save they have.
Number three. When you are giving in order to a low moral troop squad you would propoblly need there moral to go up that there would be more chances for the order to work.
Number four... Well hey Im glad you agreed with me about one thing that vets can have power fists, but as you said they wonet survive close combat. The goal of all these tactics is that they (orks) wouldnt make it to close combat and if they do then they are in small weak numbers that are possible to defeat so supply your troops with good close combat weapons.
Number five...Hey Im glad you agreed with me on one thing fully (:
Number six here I was wrong beacuse I did not know that they had the fast vechil special rule. But thanks to some people that explained me this I know it now and I perhaps will get me some hell hounds.
Number seven... You seem like a smart IG player but yet you do not understand this sacrifice tactic which a GW employe taught me, this tactic hasent ever ever ever failed me beacuse its stupid to stand there and wait till the orks do the waaagh special rule and you loose. But sending a squad forward and firing at them (reminder to all the readers not rapid fire) mite be inof to destroy a squad already (Plus imagine the rest of the tropps backing them up shooting rapid fire. The Orks mite be dead already! But Id rather charge a squad to a badly damdged ork squad then letting the green skins charge my whole line and not allowing them to shoot and maybe let the rest of the squads behined it finnish them off. That is unnecptable!

I hope I have proven my point here and I explained this to you well inof. Its sad you do not see the advantages of that last tactic. Perhaps try it once and see that it actually works. But thank you for showing your point of view of this I will note this to myslef and try some new stuff when I am not playing a tournament or campaighn match. Thanks and sorry if I did sound a bit pist but I just really perhaps felt bad that you thought this whole thing sucks. Anyways..

Just bring a Manticore or two: they are effective against any target the Orks can bring.

bob the heretic wrote:Okay seriosuly dude you need to pay attention to what I wrote.

I will start from the top to the bottom of all those qoutes you did on.
Infantry is powerfull with the first rank fire second rank fire as I have already explained that. They arnt bad believe me. Obviously you havent tried the effectivness of that rule.
Number two (My bad about the power fists) But Power weapons are effective against orcs. If the orks wonet kill all your troops in the first charge then the last remaining troops will kill them. Beacuse of the gakky armour save they have.
Number three. When you are giving in order to a low moral troop squad you would propoblly need there moral to go up that there would be more chances for the order to work.
Number four... Well hey Im glad you agreed with me about one thing that vets can have power fists, but as you said they wonet survive close combat. The goal of all these tactics is that they (orks) wouldnt make it to close combat and if they do then they are in small weak numbers that are possible to defeat so supply your troops with good close combat weapons.
Number five...Hey Im glad you agreed with me on one thing fully (:
Number six here I was wrong beacuse I did not know that they had the fast vechil special rule. But thanks to some people that explained me this I know it now and I perhaps will get me some hell hounds.
Number seven... You seem like a smart IG player but yet you do not understand this sacrifice tactic which a GW employe taught me, this tactic hasent ever ever ever failed me beacuse its stupid to stand there and wait till the orks do the waaagh special rule and you loose. But sending a squad forward and firing at them (reminder to all the readers not rapid fire) mite be inof to destroy a squad already (Plus imagine the rest of the tropps backing them up shooting rapid fire. The Orks mite be dead already! But Id rather charge a squad to a badly damdged ork squad then letting the green skins charge my whole line and not allowing them to shoot and maybe let the rest of the squads behined it finnish them off. That is unnecptable!

I hope I have proven my point here and I explained this to you well inof. Its sad you do not see the advantages of that last tactic. Perhaps try it once and see that it actually works. But thank you for showing your point of view of this I will note this to myslef and try some new stuff when I am not playing a tournament or campaighn match. Thanks and sorry if I did sound a bit pist but I just really perhaps felt bad that you thought this whole thing sucks. Anyways..

I'll add my weight to this.

First off, Illumini was right. Naked PIS suck ass. Your already spending upwards of 130 points simply to get a platoon, you may as well spend the extra points outfitting them with weapons that'll enable them to do some damage. Also; lasguns suck. the damage output from any PIS comes from the heavy/special weapons embedded in the squad itself. Any casualties caused by the flashlights is a happy bonus. Maths tells us that, despite the sheer volume of shots a FRFSRF PIS will put out, only 50% will hit, and of that 50%, only 33.3% will actually wound. Therefore you'll need to throw a truly absurd number of lasgun shots at a 30 strong boyz mob to whittle it down to take a leadership test. If I was facing Orks, I'd much rather equip three PIS with heavy bolters/grenade launchers as they'd be much more effective at culling the numbers than standard lasguns would be.

There's absoloutely no point in spending the points on power weapons vs Orks. The Ork save is worse than the Guard; denying them this save is a waste of points that I'd much rather spend on two grenade launchers for my other PIS's. You've already mentioned the gakky armour save an Ork has, why waste points denying them the 1/6 chance of them passing an armour save? Just spend the points on reducing that mob instead. A single dead Ork reduces the number of attacks by 4. Killing them from afar is much more beneficial than trying to fight in CC, which is where an Ork excels.

Why spend 15 points outfitting your Vets for CC when you've already said that the goal is to thin them down prior to CC taking place? A mob of even 10 boyz will annihilate a squad of Vets in CC, so much so that that power fist won't even get a chance to swing! Waste of points? I think so...

Again, I have to disagree. CC is the very last place that the Guard want to end up. The further you are from your foe, the more time you have to pump shots into him. Moving, shooting and charging will simply give him an extra D6" moving towards your line. I can agree somewhat that its far, far better to charge than be charged, but that is a subjective decision dependant upon terran, model placement, deployment etc. etc.Generally, I would sacrifice a PIS for the benefit of the army and simply pray that the 10man squad held up the mob for a turn or two. However, when a unit is in CC, you cannot shoot it, and again, you are offsetting your enemy's strengths with your weaknesses, hardly a fair trade for 10 Guard really is it?

L. Wrex

guard v. shoota boyz when they WAAAAAUGH in is a nightmare for the guard player. The two are equal in combat, otherwise, which means if you get the charge in on them you're going to do much more damage to them.

"run and hide" is a poor idea for a strategy against any army, much less orks.

And yeah, buying all those dudes but not springing at least a couple of points for a flamer is pretty bad. But just as there is little excuse to only arm lasgun dudes with just lasguns, neither is there one to pretend like lasguns do nothing.

And yeah, buying all those dudes but not springing at least a couple of points for a flamer is pretty bad. But just as there is little excuse to only arm lasgun dudes with just lasguns, neither is there one to pretend like lasguns do nothing.

I was confused about the last sentence sorry but can you explain what you said?


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Again, I have to disagree. CC is the very last place that the Guard want to end up. The further you are from your foe, the more time you have to pump shots into him. Moving, shooting and charging will simply give him an extra D6" moving towards your line. I can agree somewhat that its far, far better to charge than be charged, but that is a subjective decision dependant upon terran, model placement, deployment etc. etc.Generally, I would sacrifice a PIS for the benefit of the army and simply pray that the 10man squad held up the mob for a turn or two. However, when a unit is in CC, you cannot shoot it, and again, you are offsetting your enemy's strengths with your weaknesses, hardly a fair trade for 10 Guard really is it?

You guys can say about how gak this tactic is as much as you can with out even trying it. So of course it seems gak to you but Id rather listen to a professional player that had been a IG player for many years on this. So if you dont listen to me atleast think why a pro told me this tactic? That I would fail and loose matches? But fime...

Infantry is powerfull with the first rank fire second rank fire as I have already explained that. They arnt bad believe me. Obviously you havent tried the effectivness of that rule.

No they are not. Even with FrF, they are still not good. 28 shots with FrF at 12" = 14 hits = 3,5 wounds on orks = 3 dead orks, decent, but not exactly awesome firepower. Also, if the orks are in transports, your infantry can't do a thing until the orks disembark. If they had some heavy + special weapons, they could add their firepower earlier. Heavy weapons also have long range, so they extend the reach of the IS, while special weapons have such immense firepower for their pts that it is a crime to not use them.

Number two (My bad about the power fists) But Power weapons are effective against orcs. If the orks wonet kill all your troops in the first charge then the last remaining troops will kill them. Beacuse of the gakky armour save they have.

Because of their gakky save, power weapons are a waste against orks. You say it yourself...

Number three. When you are giving in order to a low moral troop squad you would propoblly need there moral to go up that there would be more chances for the order to work.

But 35pts is too much for 1pt of Ld. The commissar is great, but not really because of his orders. Making a blob stubborn is a good use of his skills.

Number four... Well hey Im glad you agreed with me about one thing that vets can have power fists, but as you said they wonet survive close combat. The goal of all these tactics is that they (orks) wouldnt make it to close combat and if they do then they are in small weak numbers that are possible to defeat so supply your troops with good close combat weapons.

Power weapons are wasted against orks, powerfists are only available on fragile units. If you spend more on firepower, even less orks will reach you.

Number five...Hey Im glad you agreed with me on one thing fully (:

I'm sorry if it came out too harsh. I agree with several other things you say, it was just a very long text, and it is more interesting to write about what you do not agree with. I also agree with you that sacrificing units can be game-winning (but in a different way), I also like the bassie, I agree that you should not upgrade armour on the vets + other stuff.

Number six here I was wrong beacuse I did not know that they had the fast vechil special rule. But thanks to some people that explained me this I know it now and I perhaps will get me some hell hounds.

Yeah, stuff like that happens

Number seven... You seem like a smart IG player but yet you do not understand this sacrifice tactic which a GW employe taught me, this tactic hasent ever ever ever failed me beacuse its stupid to stand there and wait till the orks do the waaagh special rule and you loose. But sending a squad forward and firing at them (reminder to all the readers not rapid fire) mite be inof to destroy a squad already (Plus imagine the rest of the tropps backing them up shooting rapid fire. The Orks mite be dead already! But Id rather charge a squad to a badly damdged ork squad then letting the green skins charge my whole line and not allowing them to shoot and maybe let the rest of the squads behined it finnish them off. That is unnecptable!

I fully understand how to sacrifice units to preserve more valuable units. IMO, your tactic is the flawed one. If you charge the orks, you get some more attacks, but unless the ork units is very small, you will take many more casualities than them (because they have more attacks and higher toughness than you + a powerklaw). Then your unit will have to take a Ld test with a big modifier, it will probably run away, and then all you have gained with your sacrifice is:
1. You gave the orks something to eat in your turn
2. You gave the orks D6" of free movement
You can luck out and hang in there for a round, and if you do, congrats, your tactic worked out well. You are very dependent on luck however.


If you however used the unit as a roadblock instead, positioning them to block the ork unit from charging other units, you will always get the same result. The orks are blocked from charging your other units, they will charge and kill your blocking unit, which has then served the same role as your "lucky" unit, but mine does it every time.
- This is also where it pays off to have some flamers. You can then use the squad to block, while also giving the orks a round of rapidfire + a nice flamer template. (or 4 templates with a PCS)

I hope I have proven my point here and I explained this to you well inof. Its sad you do not see the advantages of that last tactic. Perhaps try it once and see that it actually works. But thank you for showing your point of view of this I will note this to myslef and try some new stuff when I am not playing a tournament or campaighn match. Thanks and sorry if I did sound a bit pist but I just really perhaps felt bad that you thought this whole thing sucks. Anyways..

I learned the difference between your way of sacrificing and my way a long time ago, I know exactly when to apply each. Yours isn't useless, but the odds have to be on my side before I charge any stragglers.

but yet you do not understand this sacrifice tactic which a GW employe taught me

I've yet to meet/hear about a GW employee that actually has a real understanding of the rules/game. Learn tactics from veterans, painting from redshirts.

guard v. shoota boyz when they WAAAAAUGH in is a nightmare for the guard player. The two are equal in combat, otherwise, which means if you get the charge in on them you're going to do much more damage to them.

Except for the extra tougness and attack + a nob with 3 attacks and a powerklaw.

bob the heretic wrote:

And yeah, buying all those dudes but not springing at least a couple of points for a flamer is pretty bad. But just as there is little excuse to only arm lasgun dudes with just lasguns, neither is there one to pretend like lasguns do nothing.

I was confused about the last sentence sorry but can you explain what you said?

So, lasguns, by themselves are not great. As mentioned, they only kill like 3 orks a volley. Why spend 50 points to kill 3 orks when you could spend 55 points to kill 7? With very few exceptions (I can only think of one off the top of my head), you should always at least spring for a 5 point flamer or GL.

That said, to say that lasguns are only wretched and should never be taken into account because they are a worthless weapon is also a mistake. Having 2 squads FRFSRF is enough to kill about 6 orks. Will it do much to a full 30-boy squad? No. But to a half strength squad, this firepower is enough to make the boyz loose fearless, which seems pretty darn useful to me.

You shouldn't rely on lasguns alone to do enough damage. Simultaneously, you shouldn't pretend like lasguns do no damage.

As for CC, you really shouldn't be afraid of it. The only time you don't want to be in close combat against orks is on their terms. If you can't avoid getting a bunch of units into CC in your opponent's terms, you're in for a bumpy ride. If you can, getting into CC on your terms is actually one of your better strategies against orks.

Letting them WAAAUGH charge you is bad. Tying them up in close combat with a charge so that they can't then charge you later is very good.

Ailaros wrote:Letting them WAAAUGH charge you is bad. Tying them up in close combat with a charge so that they can't then charge you later is very good.

Unless you have dedicated units for this yourself (like a blob), the charging guardsmen will not tie up any threatening ork unit.

Let's assume that you want to charge your guardsmen into 10 orks.
Guardsmen go first, 22 attacks, 11 hits, 3,5 wounds = 3ish dead orks

6 orks hit back: 18 attacks, 12 hits, 6 wounds = 4 dead guardsmen
nob hits back: 3 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds = 2 dead guardsmen

Your unit that was supposed to tie up the orks now has to take a Ld test a -3, not exactly reliable, and that was against a very diminished ork unit.

Charging orks can be an option at times, but simply moving to deny them multicharges is better most of the time for a shooty IG army. Sure, you loose that unit next turn, but with good movement, you should be able to deny the orks their multicharge, and the orks will be left stranded in front of your guns.


(Made a mistake with my math earlier, FrF lasguns kill closer to 4 orks - as long as they don't have cover anyways)

Illumini wrote:Your unit that was supposed to tie up the orks now has to take a Ld test a -3.

You can tell me that when you find a blob without a commissar

Unless you have dedicated units for this yourself (like a blob)

I included blob as my one example of a unit that you CAN use to charge orks. The OP has been talking about infantry squads, not blobs.

If you're taking a platoon, you *always* have the option to blob up at least two squads. In almost any game where those platoons aren't hiding in chimeras, you should do this, as it increases the efficiency of any orders you give the units, and makes them more durable in CC. Saying that you shouldn't try to assault a mob of orks with 10 guardsmen is a no-brainer, but you shouldn't ever really have a lone 10-man squad of guardsmen sitting around.

n3koj1n wrote:My friend has found a great way to deal with most of my Orks. Lots of heavy weapon squads. Lots of regular troopers. First Rank, Second Rank. Is simple, but effective.

Exactly thats what I have explained here (:

Unfortunately "take lots of stuff" isn't actually as helpful of advice as one would think, unless the OP's problem is that he's wasting way too many points on carapace or something.