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I've been commenting on some builds, so I thought it was about time to let my current list be criticized a bit. Here goes.

HQ-
CCS: 60 pts
-Autocannon

Troops-
Grey Knights x10: 275pts

Infantry Platoon: 195pts

PCS
-Melta x4
-Melta Bombs
Squad
-Autocannon
Squad
-Autocannon

Veterans
-Plasma x3
-Chimera

Veterans
-Plasma x3
-Chimera

Fast Attack-

Vendetta: 140 Pts
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Vendetta: 140 pts
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Heavy-

Leman Russ Executioner: 210 pts
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Colossus Ordinance Battery: 140 pts



The Sponsons on the LR and the Melta Bombs in the PSC are 25 pts I hadn't put any thought into just yet.

The PCS usually rides in a Vendetta to either be outflanked or Scouts moved close enough to hurt something. Either that or they just make it a scoring fast skimmer (look, I'm Eldar!).

In defense of PAGKs; they are great for camping a homefield objective and deterring assault, especially if the incoming group has been whittled down from IG's lovely guns. If they don't need to be defensive, they're good to put into a Vendetta and gain some ground with its Scouts move before hopping out and advancing. Either way they're my troops unit that won't collapse immediately if caught out of cover or if they're assaulted.

If you are going to run PAGKs, drop 2 of them for 2 psycannons. Get that 6 shots at 36" range and use shrouding to your advantage

I used to run with a couple Psycannons in there. I took them out because I felt I needed more AP3, and I had enough AP4, but that was when I had a Hydra Flak Tank, too. I'll consider adding them back in now. I'm sad that they lose the NFW, though, and True Grit doesn't help anymore, so they're Str 4 with 1 attack.

Edit: I'm going to try this out. It makes some good sense if I have them in a defensive role to get the extra range. Since I have some spare points, I don't have to drop two PAGKs, only one.

You should upgrade the executioner to have plasma sponsons. Pay for this by dropping melta bombs and changing one veteran squad from plasma to melta (one melta unit isn't really enough).

My usual enemies are 'Nids and Eldar, and I usually don't have anything over AV12 to shoot at, much less more than one thing, so I think 4 meltas and 6 TL Lascannons usually do fine. If I end up with more AV13 or 14, I'll consider it, though. The plasmas on Vets really help against the MCs, too. Losing six plasma shots for two plasma blasts and three melta shots doesn't sound like a gain against them.

What role do you think I'm missing without the Plasma Sponsons? (I'm actually interested, btw, I don't want to be that guy that asks for advice and shoots it all down without thinking about it.) I generally think that they make the Russ more expensive and encourage it to stay still too often. And if you're going to stay still, you may as well get Pask and a Lascannon (for more AP2), I think, so that's even more points. Maybe that's overboard, but I see it as the way to take full advantage if you're staying still.

That said, I'd like to someday kit out the Executioner as above, and add a Demolisher with MM sponsons. I'd pay for all that by losing the Grey Knights. (I love 'em, but I want to be ready if we can't use allies in the future)

Eh, I wouldn't rationalize getting the plasma sponsons to combat AV 13 or 14; you won't have much luck with it.

Personally, I like the heavy bolter sponsons because there's something to be said about high rate of fire against any army. It doesn't matter if you're facing something with a 6+ save or a 2+ save, if they have upwards of 20+ wounds going at them, (assuming you get lucky on your scatters,) odds are they're going to fail a few, (not to mention the plasma will most likely kill everything that doesn't have a 3+ Invul save, (damn TH/SS terminators.)

Honestly, against any MEQ army, if you decide to put on the plasma sponsons, you might as well put a sign on it that says, "HAY GUYZ BLOW ME UP FIRST."

At least... I guess... if you took the sponsons and got a weapon destroyed against it, it would still be more than a pewpew tank shock vehicle. lol

bforber wrote:Personally, I like the heavy bolter sponsons because there's something to be said about high rate of fire against any army. It doesn't matter if you're facing something with a 6+ save or a 2+ save. . .

The problem there (to me) is that you can put too many wounds on a unit with mixed AP like that. If you've got a three marine unit, and wound with three Plasmas and four Bolters, then they can stack all the AP2 wounds on one guy. Where you would have killed the whole group with just Plasmas, the extra shots have actually saved them from obliteration. This would leave me tempted to not fire the sponsons (also why I usually upgrade the Hull HB to a LC), which feels like a waste of points if I purposely don't fire them. Have you found that the option of staying still and firing 9 HB shots in one or maybe two turns is worth it? More importantly, is it worth taking the points from somewhere else?

Obviously if you're firing on an MC (which I do often enough, actually), a large enough group, or a group with an armor save of 4 or worse, then having consistent AP isn't an issue. I just usually feel like I take this particular Russ specifically for the 2+ and 3+ threats.

If I end up not liking the Psycannons on the PAGKs, then I'll probably use the points for the sponsons and see how it plays out.