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I'm just a new-comer to imperial guard but I'm genuinely confused on the HQ command choice everyone takes the CCS.

Is it just me or is it just a 5-man veteran squad that can issue orders with the options to take advisors/bodyguards etc and a HW? It doesn't seem like it can actually do anything in combat apart from its 1 HW firing off. Not to mention 5-man even with some advisors (which are not gonna contribute to combat) are very vulnerable to just about anything and could easily get wiped out.

I've read people that tool up their CCS and putting them in Chimeras, can the CCS combine squads like the Platoon Command Squad or can it take a 4-man special weapons teams? What am I missing about the CCS??, there MUST be a more effective way to run these than a 5-man squad firing 1 lascannon shot every turn.

How do most people run them in their own IG army? Mech or Gunline.

It's a veteran squad that has a couple fewer meat shields, but in return can take another special weapon, can issue two orders, and costs 20 points less.

Basically the good configuration is 4 special weapons and a chimera.

So in essence its just a 5-man Veteran squad? Like 1 commander and 4 Melta-gun veterans?

Is there any possible way to get more than 5-man in it? I feel like sure it can kill Rhinos but it's gonna get wiped out easily by the pissed off Chaos Bezerkers inside it when they come out.

A 10-man Veteran squad with Shotguns can at least blow the Rhino, shoot the Zerkers and then charge to at least damage the enemy squad. If anyone can help me out, does anyone pair a melta-gun CCS and/OR melta 10-man veteran squad in a chimera with a Close Combat Veteran Squad with 3 Flamers/Shotguns and a Powerfist inside a Chimera to roast the contents of the Rhino now you busted them with the melta-gun vets?

The point is the chimera keeps them safe. Either load them up with 4 Plasma Guns or 4 Melta Guns, or possibly just a lascannon/other heavy weapon if you intend to use it for giving orders to a static gunline type arrangement.

The point of a melta squad isn't to take out a weak transport and then try to deal with the juicy things inside, it's to take out a heavy vehicle like raiders. Sure they work for the light vehicles too, but the contents of those vehicles should be left to other parts of your army. For example, your Melta Squad should rush up to kill the Land Raider that's trying to bring Termies/Zerkers/Mean Things into CC with you, after which you can bombard the squad with your artillery/tanks/flashlight while the squad sits in the rubble wondering where it's ride went. If it gets too close, rush up with the Melta unit while surrounding the whole thing with a blob squad to prevent disembarking, if you can.

Powerfists on IG is not a good idea. 2/3 Str 6 powerweapon attacks aren't going to do much of anything. I would never waste a BS 4 unit on taking flamers. If you want lots of flamers, take a Platoon Command Squad, give them x4 Flamers, load them in a chimy, and melt faces. A blob squad is really the only CC option guard has, other than *possibly* rough riders if you're daring.

Remember also that the Chimera has five, count 'em, five fire points. So all four of those special weapons can fire from the relative safety of the transport. The disembarkation step is optional, only used when stuff really needs to die, as you get extra range and the officer can issue an order to his squad.

1. Orders.
2. Standard.
3. Up to four BS4 special weapon slots (usually just two for me due to numbers 1 and 2).
4. Advisors.


Seems pretty awesome to me.


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DorianGray wrote:A 10-man Veteran squad with Shotguns can at least blow the Rhino, shoot the Zerkers and then charge to at least damage the enemy squad.

This is nonsense. You can't shoot the zerkers at the same time as you're destroying the rhino, and charging them is completely pointless because you will get slaughtered to a man before you get to swing (or have like one guy left who will run away and get run down).

one last point that no one mentioned, is they can take a medic. 3 plasmas 1 plasma pistol and a medic is a very strong combination. You have 7 bs 4 plasma shots and a 4+ FNP save against the wound if you roll a 1 to hit.

I normally run mine (in a mech list) as:

4 plasmaguns
plasma pistol
carapace armor
(if i outflank) astopath
(otherwise) officer of the fleet
chimera

The moment that the advisor's ability becomes useless, he becomes a 4+ armor save extra wound. Sometimes if I have the magic 15 points and nowhere better to put them, I'll pick up a bodyguard to increase this effect somewhat.

If I'm gunlining, I'll typically run it pretty nakid:

Lascannon
Standard
vox caster (sometimes)
chimera (sometimes)

Yes, it's kind of wasting BS 4, but if I'm gunlining then it's leadership bubble and orders and a BS 4 lascannon for relative cheapness. Gunlining has other problems above and beyond the CCS, so I don't run that configuration too often.

daedalus wrote: if I'm gunlining then it's leadership bubble and orders and a BS 4 lascannon for relative cheapness.

Leadership bubble? I thought that went away (unless you're including a commissar lord)?

Flavius Infernus wrote:

daedalus wrote: if I'm gunlining then it's leadership bubble and orders and a BS 4 lascannon for relative cheapness.

Leadership bubble? I thought that went away (unless you're including a commissar lord)?

I'm guessing he meant orders, and in that case the BS 4 Lascannon is a pretty good idea

Yeah, only the Lord Commissar's Aura of Discipline gives the same effect as the leadership bubble of previous editions.

Irdiumstern wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:

daedalus wrote: if I'm gunlining then it's leadership bubble and orders and a BS 4 lascannon for relative cheapness.

Leadership bubble? I thought that went away (unless you're including a commissar lord)?

I'm guessing he meant orders, and in that case the BS 4 Lascannon is a pretty good idea

Sorry, I meant leadership reroll bubble; the Company Standard. I'd use BID for the CCS lascannon, and I'd also throw out orders to nearby guardsmen as necessary. This is also the only situation I'd run HWS in, but thats a different conversation. The biggest problem is that you have to stay stationary for the Lascannon to be effective, though with 12" radius orders from a Chimera hull, you might get enough reach to not have to move too often.

dumplingman wrote:one last point that no one mentioned, is they can take a medic. 3 plasmas 1 plasma pistol and a medic is a very strong combination. You have 7 bs 4 plasma shots and a 4+ FNP save against the wound if you roll a 1 to hit.

After running this set up and also the carapace version, if all you're after is plasma spam, the medic isn't really worth it. Sure, flak/FNP provides twice the protection against overheats that carapace does, but it's simply not worth giving up that extra plasma gun. Chances are you'll only get one or two volleys in a game anyway, so you want them to really count. I still feel that at 30 points the medic should have been an advisor add-on rather than an upgrade to a veteran.


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daedalus wrote:Sorry, I meant leadership reroll bubble; the Company Standard. I'd use BID for the CCS lascannon, and I'd also throw out orders to nearby guardsmen as necessary. This is also the only situation I'd run HWS in, but thats a different conversation. The biggest problem is that you have to stay stationary for the Lascannon to be effective, though with 12" radius orders from a Chimera hull, you might get enough reach to not have to move too often.

I don't know if I'd waste an order on a single lascannon unless there was absolutely nothing else to throw it on. I'd even consider HWSs first, even though they normally are a poor target for orders. Even deprived of all other options, I probably still wouldn't expend it on the lascannon since that would mean running the CCS without a chimera which == slowed.

The company standard rules, though. My most common CCS lately has run with a vox and standard (re-rolls are awesome), and two meltaguns for any speeders or outflanking transports that slip into my back lines.

you have a point but just giving another option, also you have no idea how horrible my luck is sometimes. I'd rather lose 30 points then have 4 of 5 mondels die in one turn cause my rolling is terrible

Ah, but if your rolls were so bad that you failed to do any damage and your target was dangerous enough to warrant risking a CCS for a plasma barrage, that very same enemy unit will likely eat the CCS next turn anyway, right?

not ususall as they are iusually n a chimera so they have at least one extra layer of protection

OP Advisers do Contribute to Combat; the 3 that grant extra rules all have basic Veteran level skills, and the 2 Body guards you can take are WS 4 as well as BS 4. Also all carry Pistol and CCW so gain an additional attack.

With the Full compliment of advisers you get 10(9 if you have a Heavy weapon team) models in your command squad(of course that is 160 points before any other upgrades), also every member of the squad(including advisers) gets Carapace armor for the low, low cost of 20 Points(and 2 Points per model for better saves is dirt cheap)

So, terminus has it. There's just a couple of things I'd add.

Firstly, the CCS is your cheapest HQ choice. If you absolutely must pinch every point, a CCS with a standard has a lot of overlap with the lord commissar, except it's 5 points cheaper.

Secondly, as was mentioned but I really have to emphasize is advisers. No other guard HQ choice gives you the ability to force your opponent to reroll which side they're coming in on from outflanking, or that gives you +1 to your reserve rolls. These metagame things can be HUGE, and they can only come from a CCS.

Thirdly, seriously, what else are you going to take? The lord commissar get's the advantage of bringing stubborn, but it can only give that to one squad. Meanwhile, it's ability to give people Ld10 isn't as good as giving Ld8 people a reroll. The only reason you should take a lord commissar is if you just can't find the points to put out yet another regular commissar in your blobs.

The primaris psyker is cool, I'll grant you that. That said, given that he's going to be spending a lot of time lightning arcing, how is he any different from a special weapons boat? He comes in at about half the cost of a plasma CCS, but you get what you pay for. Instead of at least 5 models that can screw up your opponent's deployment and give your army some happy bonuses to reserves and everyone nearby a reroll to their leadership test, and can make your guns twin linked and can make your opponent reroll passed cover saves, you get a dude (that you need to find a home for in another squad).

So if you want an absolute bargain basement HQ choice, the primaris psyker can be a good choice. If you have any other obejctive than price, the CCS is better than the psyker, and MUCH better than the lord commissar.

The Primaris is primarily the choice for mech guard that is trying to put as many points into FA and HS vehicles as possible, since you can just put him into someone else's chimera, whereas the CCS needs a chimera of their own to fit into the army.

Even FA/HS-heavy mech guard will have some veterans and/or infantry platoons, and orders are invaluable for this purpose. And the option to buy another Chimera is never a drawback. Chimeras are awesome.

Terminus wrote:Even FA/HS-heavy mech guard will have some veterans and/or infantry platoons, and orders are invaluable for this purpose. And the option to buy another Chimera is never a drawback. Chimeras are awesome.

I find Hydras to be more awesome than chimeras In my 2k list I fit in a CCS. Below that I just use a primaris, as I don't want to spend all the points on commissars and voxes to make orders reliable for guys who should be trying to stay in their tanks anyways.

I always wonder about that supposition. "They are staying in their tank anyway." Are people really playing opponents that have absolutely no way at all to crack chimeras that they stay in play all game? Are people really playing opponents who conveniently place their stuff within a 6" move threat range?

I said they would be "trying to" stay in the tank. I realize that my opponents may try to kill my troop-carrying chimeras, but then they are not trying to kill the elements in my army that can do more reliable damage to them.

Then I feel you're underusing your troops, as they can cause very reliable damage indeed. But if it works for you, more power to you.

For example, you've never have an opportunity for an alpha strike by moving 12" and piling out to nuke that Land Raider with Vulkan and his homeboys?

Terminus wrote:I always wonder about that supposition. "They are staying in their tank anyway." Are people really playing opponents that have absolutely no way at all to crack chimeras that they stay in play all game? Are people really playing opponents who conveniently place their stuff within a 6" move threat range?

I play a plain CCS with just 3 meltaguns in a chimera--no standard, no other upgrades. With 10 other tank hulls, 2 HWS and a 30-man infantry blob in the army at 1500 points, the CCS is a really low-priority target (I think the lack of upgrades actually helps make it a lower priority). So far it typically only dies if I'm already losing and there's nothing else to shoot at.

I think it's a great unit. At the start of the game it sits in the back and gives orders--"bring it down" or "fire on my target" to the blob if they're not moving, and/or to the HWSs which are deployed within 12" of the chimera. "Get back in the fight" to HWS who start to fall back, or to units that get pinned. Since it's not doing anything else, the chimera can also shoot at light armor or skimmers. At some point, a big creature or vehicle or unit of 2+ save guys pops up/is blown out of their transport or whatever, usually within the 18" threat range of the CCS melta (that's drive 6" and shoot out the hatches 12", or if you need the melta for a vehicle, drive 12" disembark and shoot 6").

I also like that, in objective missions, they're somewhat expendable in the late game (unlike vets). Since they don't score, you can send them on that suicide mission to clear an objective with melta shots, and leave the chimera there to contest.

They're also expendable in the sense that I can lose the unit in turn 1 and the rest of my army will still play pretty much the same, since I don't depend on standards, advisors, or the special character rules. The orders are nice to have, and more melta never hurts, but the army functions perfectly well without them.

If you are running them with only three meltaguns, why not add in a 5-point vox caster to make those orders more reliable (at least when issued to platoons and veterans)?

Alternatively, a standard will keep those HWSs from getting pinned or falling back in the first place.

If you're not going to take four specials, may as well use the slot for either upgrade. Re-rolls are worth their weight in gold.

Terminus wrote:If you are running them with only three meltaguns, why not add in a 5-point vox caster to make those orders more reliable (at least when issued to platoons and veterans)?

Alternatively, a standard will keep those HWSs from getting pinned or falling back in the first place.

If you're not going to take four specials, may as well use the slot for either upgrade. Re-rolls are worth their weight in gold.

Probably 80% of my orders go to the heavy weapon squads. Nearly every other order goes to the infantry blob, which is Ld9 due to the commissar, so not really worth it. I'll take another look at the standard, though. Had a situation in a game last night where a reroll on a pin test would have been really useful.

Honestly the 3 specials thing (which I also do in PCS squads) is just because it's a 1500 point army and points are very tight. So one fewer special in my command squads frees up enough points to buy more heavies, and 3 meltas at BS4 is nearly always enough to do the job.

Yeah, the reason voxes are usually not worth taking is because the squads that you REALLY want to give the choice orders to (HWS, SWS), can't take them. The only time I'd ever consider using them is in a mech vet list, and even then I probably wouldn't.

Personally, I run CCSs with 3 special weapons in part because points are tight, in part because it's less necessary (due to BS4), and, most importantly, I take a standard, and the standard bearer can't take a special weapon.

Ld9 is still a 17% chance to fail, so I like having the standards/voxes around.

And yes, it's a god damn shame S/HWSs can't take voxes, since they fail their orders about half the time.

CCS Squad w/Plasma Pistol
4 x Meltas
Chimera w/ ML, Heavy Flamer, HK Missile

I use this to follow a Mech rush of Chimeras and then try to hit any high value targets that are in the way from the firing ports on the APC.
Chimeras get exploded rather easily so its a risk but hey we are playing a wargame....risks must be taken

I try to take two of these to anchor either end of my forces...