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A small discussion came up yesterday. Dwarfs vs Highelves. The rulebook states that Scouts cannot charge on the first turn (page 79), and I have a 25 man Ranger Longbeards +Thane (oh lol dwarfs), and with Anvil of Doom I can make them charge in the Shooting Phase. Aka 12" or more away from the enemy. March 6", and then use anvil and that unit charge. Now we ruled (since it was our first game with 8th and friendly game) that we wouldn't use that. And now reading the rules furthe, on page 11:

"On rare occasion, a conflict will arise between a rule in this book, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed int he Warhammer Armies book always take precedence"

Your thought about this? I think it's pretty clear that they can charge on the first turn due to what says on Basic vs Advance on page 11

Thorheim wrote:A small discussion came up yesterday. Dwarfs vs Highelves. The rulebook states that Scouts cannot charge on the first turn (page 79), and I have a 25 man Ranger Longbeards +Thane (oh lol dwarfs), and with Anvil of Doom I can make them charge in the Shooting Phase. Aka 12" or more away from the enemy. March 6", and then use anvil and that unit charge. Now we ruled (since it was our first game with 8th and friendly game) that we wouldn't use that. And now reading the rules furthe, on page 11:

"On rare occasion, a conflict will arise between a rule in this book, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed int he Warhammer Armies book always take precedence"

Your thought about this? I think it's pretty clear that they can charge on the first turn due to what says on Basic vs Advance on page 11

I lack ready access to the Dwarf Army Book - how does the Anvil actually read?

The rules for scouts (& vanguard) are that they can't declare a charge on the top of Turn 1. (They also can't deploy within 12".)

I think Janthkin is correct in that a scout unit cannot "declare" charges if they get first turn, but given that the Anvil works outside of the Movement Phase, I would say that you should be able to pull off a charge with that item.

I agree and I think this is how most similar effects should work (TK's incantation, O&G Waagh, etc).

Janthkin wrote:I lack ready access to the Dwarf Army Book - how does the Anvil actually read?

The rules for scouts (& vanguard) are that they can't declare a charge on the top of Turn 1. (They also can't deploy within 12".)

It says "A single friendly dwarf unit (but not a Gyrocopter) may make a normal move (which can be a March or Charge) in the shooting phase."
And guess you agree with me that you can charge with them, since they do a "normal move" and not a Charge Decleration... *ponders*

I would disagree. The move is a normal move- and the only way to move into combat is to declare a charge. The restriction is on declaring a charge in the first turn if your army goes first. If the restriction said something like "Scouts may not declare a charge in the movement phase during the first turn if their army moves first" then the anvil charge is good to go.

RZ

I says that scouts cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first.

Yes, I know. I was giving an example of what it would need to say in order for Thorheim's suggestion to be correct.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:I would disagree. The move is a normal move- and the only way to move into combat is to declare a charge. The restriction is on declaring a charge in the first turn if your army goes first. If the restriction said something like "Scouts may not declare a charge in the movement phase during the first turn if their army moves first" then the anvil charge is good to go.

Yup, that's how I'd read it - if we're dealing with a "normal" move, then we're still using all the rules for declaring charges, etc.

If the Anvil move read something more like Compulsory Movement ("Move X inches - if you make contact with the enemy, you count as charging"), it'd be a different conversation.

so,you all are ignoring
"On rare occasion, a conflict will arise between a rule in this book, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed int he Warhammer Armies book always take precedence"
urgh, this demands for GW to FAQ.

Thorheim wrote:so,you all are ignoring
"On rare occasion, a conflict will arise between a rule in this book, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed int he Warhammer Armies book always take precedence"
urgh, this demands for GW to FAQ.

To quote Vader: "There is no conflict."

The rulebook tells us: "No declaring a charge on turn 1." The anvil's rules don't conflict with that, any more than the Movement rate of my Seekers of Slaanesh conflicts with the Vanguard prohibition on charging - both units have the necessary distance, but are still forbidden by the rules.

To elaborate on Janthkin's points...

The Anvil lets you make a normal move with that unit. Does that mean that you can move through friendly units, move off the board, or move through an impassible obstacle? No, because there are rules prohibiting those sorts of movements and the rule allowing the movement doesn't address them.

In fact, it just says that it's a "normal move", so every "normal" restriction in the rulebook applies. And one of the normal restrictions is that Scouts that used their special rule can't charge in the first player turn.

+1 to Janthkin and Solkan. Not ignoring anything, because there is no conflict. If the Anvil rules said "this move may even allow a charge in the first turn" (which of course it doesn't) then we'd have a case of armybook over-riding the rulebook.

RZ