Should WoC armies use a BsB?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Infreak**

With 8th being released and BsB's allowing re-rolls to ANY failed leadership test, I've seen all the newer army lists include a BsB. Now, there is no questioning how great a BsB can be for many armies. Being able to re-roll panic, fear, terror, break, reform, etc is a fantastic ability, but should a WoC army always buy a BsB when it can?

Prior to 8th Woc armies never really took a BsB. A unit of warriors or knights should be able to generate enough active CR that it would win combat. Marauders should have enough rank and generate enough active CR to not lose combat as well. Outside of combat we can re-roll panic tests because of The Will of Chaos special rule. All of that stacked on top of most units having a leadership value of 8 makes for a very good chance of not fleeing from combat or panicing from shooting.

What has changed so much that WoC suddenly needs to buy a BsB? Is it really a necessity now? Will WoC players keep using a BsB or find it a waste of points, much like it was in 7th?

**barlio**

WoC still need BSBs for a number of reasons:
*Rerolling Berserk Charge for Frenzied Units
*March blocking
*Troll's, Sigvald, etc... Stupidity
*Break tests
*Terror tests
*Fear tests

BSBs are now a must for every army.

**RiTides**

Well, I'm not planning to take a BSB in either of my armies

but I do see how good it is now. It's also one of the #1 targets for your enemy, and hero-level characters are rather easy to kill in combat now. So, it's an investment that could really help, or might end up not really doing anything. But I see most people taking them.

The other drawback is with the new scenarios, a lot of the deployment is somewhat random. Your BSB might not be on the same flank as most of your army, which will make it more of a waste of points.

But overall, I do think one is well worth taking, and that most people will include it.

**ShivanAngel**

I dont think there is any army in warhammer that should not take a bsb...

**RiTides**

Aha! All the more reason not to take one...! You weren't expecting that, were you? "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

...Sorry, just being silly here

. Although it does make me less interested in taking one...

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

I don't think you "have" to take one. I'd voyage that some armies would rather take another sorcerer. I'm sure a lot of people will, but I wouldn't say most because there's no way of tracking something like that in a hobby as compartmentalized as ours.

**ShivanAngel**

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I don't think you "have" to take one. I'd voyage that some armies would rather take another sorcerer. I'm sure a lot of people will, but I wouldn't say most because there's no way of tracking something like that in a hobby as compartmentalized as ours.

I can agree with that. My rational is that "most" armies can get a bsb for less than 100 points. Sure some games you might not use it, but that one leadership test you fail, and then pass the re-roll on more then likely made its point cost up...

Now certain armies (lizardmen for example) are a lot less reliant on the bsb simply because the dont fail leadership tests very often at all..

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

Agreed. I think people need to stay more open-minded about tactics and list-building in general. I've had a unit of Possessed take out a unit of Bloodcrushers

That doesn't meant that I'm running around screaming that Possessed are better than Bloodcrushers though. Theory hammer all you want, but at least try "crappy" units a couple times to see if there's something your analysis didn't quite catch.

**Tzeentchling9**

I try to fit in BSB, but I always run a Sorc Lord when possible, so I have magic covered.

Looking back on my games, the BSB has been very useful. If anything, his old job of re-rolling break tests is well worth it so far, with the added bonus of re-roll stupidity and fear checks be excellent too.

I guess WoC don't really need a BSB like some other armies do, but I've found it very, very useful.

**Infreak**

Myself, I'm on the fence about a BsB. It will definitely help prevent a bad roll from ruining my day, but at the same time with a high ld I'm not sure I really do need it. I am going to experiment with it and see how it goes.

**JSK-Fox**

135 points for a BSB is a little much. In all honesty, they are better at higher points levels. I can imaginve that it would be better to get a Sorc Lord/Chaos Lord first, and maybe a sorceror if you are Chaos Lord, and a BSB if you are Sorc Lord.
Provides something very good in my opinion.

**barlio**

Remember thought that the 135pt BSB has 4 Str5 attacks at Initiative 7 and a 4+ save (3+ with Shield). He can also be given some nice equipment and gifts (Stream of Corruption comes to mind).

My current BSB is as follows:
*Exalted Hero, BSB, MoN, Enchanted Shield, Filth Mace 205pts
-> I'm also considering adding the Stream of Corruption to him.
He's got a 2+ save, 4 Str5 Poisoned attacks and if he kills a guy he's causing terror. Anybody he's facing that is WS 4 or less is only hitting him on 5s.

**Lexx**

With the abilities of battle standard bearers now they're worth their points several times over in my opinion. Not mandatory but great choice for any army.

**Kasrkinlegion**

I think BSB's are pretty clutch for almost any army in the game.

I also think the rule where they instantly die if the unit they're in loses combat is one of the worst rules I've seen in any edition of WFB. It's also massively unbalanced as a goblin BSB is less than 50 points where a chaos or HE one is 100+. Because of this awful rule, the Banner of the Gods which makes units stubborn seems to be almost worth it.

So absolutely take them, but keep them from losing combat.

**Daba**

They only die when they flee from combat, not lose.

**Orangecoke**

I have a mono-god Khorne army, so frenzy is obviously an issue. In my first game I used the BSB reroll *several* times. I won't leave home without it for sure.

**JSK-Fox**

THAT'S MAH BOY!
Anyways, i typically try to fit a 'Sorcerer' into my Khorne army (He uses a magical gun, spells are ammo!) so there is NO space for him until higher point levels.

**ser_hag**

ShivanAngel wrote:I dont think there is any army in warhammer except undead that should not take a bsb...

fixed that for ya