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Ok, so I have a few questions about shields in the new rulebook and wanted some input on a few situations that raise questions in my mind

1. What Bonuses would taking shields on units with two handed weapons (Say Halberdiers) add?

- +1 to armor saves against shooting and magic attacks (Thanks to all on this one )

2. What Benefits are there to taking shields with one handed special weapons?

- +1 to all armor saves (Thanks to Lixulana & Davall on this one )

3. How would a magic weapon (I assume to be one handed, as its not mentioned) function with a shield?

- +1 to all armor saves (Thanks to all on this one )

4. In the same situation as #3, if the shield was a magic item (say a spell shield) would you still gain the effect ((1) Magic resistance)?

-Yes (Thanks to Killjoy00 )

5. In the same situation as #1, if the shield was a magic item, would you still gain the effect?

-you'd only gain the effect if appropriate/out of combat (Thanks to Killjoy00 )

6. In a situation where you have a Magic item or ability that lets you reroll failed armor saves (lets use dawn armor as an example, standard with a 4+ save) would adding a shield allow you to reroll at the improved 3+save ? or would the shield (or mount, or barding) not stack?

- Reroll the improved save. (Thanks to Killjoy00 )

Thats all I can come up with at the moment, thanks in advance for any insight, and feel free to add questions to my list.

yes/correct on 1-4.

on 5, you'd only gain the effect if appropriate/out of combat. ie, seems like most of them apply out of combat and you'd get it. the one use only, ignore hit on 2+ one wouldn't be usable in h2h though.

on 6, reroll the improved save.

Good to know im not way off then, Thanks for the quick reply.

Realistically in the case of the Halberdier unit with shields, the +1pt cost is kinda a throw away isnt it?

At risk of starting a flame war, I think models still get the +1 armor bonus for the shield even when using a two handed special weapon. Here's why:

On page 43 it says a model that carries a shield gets the +1 armor bonus. There is also a chart displaying the category "armor worn" under which shields fall.

Also note that on page 89 (and throughout the rulebook as far as I have found), the words "carries" and "carry" are only used to refer to every item the model possesses - whether they are using it or not. In one specific instance, the word "carries" is used to refer specifically to items that the model is NOT using:

"...if the model also carries a magical close combat weapon of some kind, he will always use it in preference to other weapons he carries."

When the rulebook refers to weapons that are currently being utilized by the model for a rules benefit, the words using, wielding or the phrase fighting with are always used.

The difference is that a model can carry as many items as you want, but it can only wield or fight with one.

As on page 43 it says a model must only carry a shield to get the armor bonus, it is my conclusion that models still get the armor bonus even when they are not using the shield at all. They do not get the 6+ parry save, because that requires that they wield the shield.

Thats the debate I was having with a friend that brought me here to start this topic

I totally see that going either way

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh, wait, pg 75 under "requires two hands"

"It is not possible for a model to use a shield or an additional hand weapon alongside it in close combat (although a shield can still be used against wounds caused by shooting for magic)"

The rule on page 75 still doesn't apply to this, because it says you can't use the shield. You don't need to use the shield to get the armor bonus.

And that would go in the pile of "really, youre trying to argue that you get to have 3 hands worth of items?"

They stopped you doing it with DE, Skaven etc - sorry, in CC if you want the +1 you need to be using a single handed weapon.

Yeah im noticing people really starting to push the boundaries of RaW and completely ignoring basic common sense.

You cant use a shield with a halberd, you cant take frenzy multiple times for bonus attacks. Use some common sense and stop trying to be TFG.

on the points above.

2 is not correct, you only get the parry save if you are using a basic hand weapon, if you are using a "special" weapon you dont get the parry save.


though i have to say that since the rule for two handed explicitly states ( can be used for magic and shooting)

also under "hand weapon and shield" p88 it says that the model "carry a hand weapon in one hand and a shield in the other" it doesnt say they "use" it.
along with the rules fro additional hand weapon say they carry them not use them.


this is just a case of the writer interchanging carry/use.

Yes, pg 75 I really have to note the comment "Can be used for shooting and magic" sealed my understanding of that situation, as there wouldnt be a point to that comment if it didn't refer specifically to not being able to gain the armor bonus in close combat.

on two, I knew magic weapons couldn't gain the parry bonus, but I can't yet find anything on the special weapons, though I am doing my best to look for answers myself while we pull together some solid answers, hopefully this will benefit more than just me

pg 88 Parry Save specifically states a shield and hand weapon. Special weapons need not apply (nor magic weapons or shields).

If common sense were even a slight factor in these games then my multimelta bikes would not have missed that Land Raider SIX TIMES from two inches away on Monday night.

The rules say what they say. I'm not interested in how many hands you want to imagine on your tiny plastic men. I'm interested in the RAW.

The Requires Two Hands rule on page 75 is certainly pertinent here, but I'd like to point out that additional hand weapon/two hand weapons do not have the Require Two Hands rule. So, at least in that instance, the RAW still permits models to get the armor bonus from a shield while using the additional hand weapon.

Good luck getting a game if you actually want to play that way.

RAW you may be right, RAI you most defrinitely are not.

2. What Benefits are there to taking shields with one handed special weapons?

- +1 to all armor saves (Thanks to Lixulana & Davall on this one )

And a 6+ Ward Save, called Parry. But ONLY to Basic Hand Weapons and Shields. In close combat only to the warriors front, and not by frenzied ccharacters... nor Impact hits nor Stomp attacks, nor on mounted models.

2. What Benefits are there to taking shields with one handed special weapons?

- +1 to all armor saves (Thanks to Lixulana & Davall on this one )

And a 6+ Ward Save, called Parry. But ONLY to Basic Hand Weapons and Shields. In close combat only to the warriors front, and not by frenzied ccharacters... nor Impact hits nor Stomp attacks, nor on mounted models.

#2 was speaking specifically about special weapons, so In that case the parry save would not apply, as they are not Basic hand weapons as I now understand.

But you are correct that a basic hand weapon and shield would grant a parry save

steve27100 wrote:

2. What Benefits are there to taking shields with one handed special weapons?

- +1 to all armor saves (Thanks to Lixulana & Davall on this one )

And a 6+ Ward Save, called Parry. But ONLY to Basic Hand Weapons and Shields. In close combat only to the warriors front, and not by frenzied ccharacters... nor Impact hits nor Stomp attacks, nor on mounted models.

#2 was speaking specifically about special weapons, so In that case the parry save would not apply, as they are not Basic hand weapons as I now understand.

But you are correct that a basic hand weapon and shield would grant a parry save

Thanks! Didn't see special.