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OK As more of you guys Know I"m as left leaning as they come. Be that as it may, I'm done with Dems. I'm used to real visionaries like President JFK, and ballsy Democrats like Bill Clinton (No I don't care what he does in his private time). What I get is a bunch of spineless puddles of fail, led by the most noddle back-boned president since ever. Republicans love to say that BO is a communist, or socialist or Islamic Spy. Those things take back bone, and that's something that BO has none of.Like most lefties, I felt foolish after tangling with "drill baby drill. Only to have BO OK it anyway. I sat through his father's day campaign speech that pretty much said "You suck black men isn't that right black women!" like a bad comedian. I told my friend they were really angry because we married white women,( but that's not why I was a Hillary supporter, honest!)
It's not that I don't mind him half assing things. That's what politics is all about. It's the simple abandonment of groups that supported him. Then this happened today.
Pretty much A conservative website put up an edited video of someone black to make them seem anti-white. It's gets played on fox news, and the Dems are just too quick to agree with them before they know the facts themselves. Of course the next day the unedited tape instantly turned up a day later and everybody had egg on their face. This is like the 10th time an edited video has come up and been debunked. Every time BO has condemned the group or person. Followed by "outraged" Democrats. Hell all the white house had to do was WATCH THE VIDEO themselves, but they can't be bothered to do that. Where is the ' OUTRAGE" every time democrat supporters get called communists, socialist, new black panther, black liberation party,and the host of other names we get tagged with. I'd go so far to say Black folks are nothing more than a voter block for BO. He has no plans to get anybody off of welfare and grow minority companies so more people can work, or at least classes to teach them how to survive in the workplace. They can take the brunt of America's ire while he can stay above the fray, and be OUTRAGED at every person Fox say's is out of line.
At my job today An Older guy told me "young black men should be more like Obama." I told him that they had enough men like him during slavery, because he is just getting whipped and not doing anything about it.I'm tired of taking hits for him.
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
All Presidents get whipped. As Presidents go, Obama is getting whipped far less than most.
He's also doing a lot. I don't like any of it, I don't agree with the guy's polcies at all, but if you're left of center, then you're CRAZY if you think he can move any faster. He simply can't. He'd destroy himself and his party if he did.
As far as the oil stuff, again, don't hold it against him. The PotUS has to understand the importance of oil to this country. He may not like it, but thumbing his nose at big oil only hurts Americans.
This whole thing with this USDA woman is interesting, especially given the racism threads that have been going on. I'm suprised that she was canned so quickly, it shows a level of consistency and honesty I wouldn't expect of Democrats, I had always assumed they thought charges of racism was their club alone to wield.
I really don't know what the deal is, if she was being racist or not, and I don't really care. I find it odd that they threw her under the bus so fast, and then I also find it hilarious that the mainstream media manages to find a way to fit it to their template. The only stories in the world are white people being racist, and black people being falsely accused of being racist. WHEEEEE! Idiots.
First and foremost, the woman that was fired? That was a conservative hitjob with the tape being edited. She was fired before anyone in the white house actually looked into it. So if you want to be mad about that, be mad at the dems for buckling to fox news lying and smearing someone. There was also a formal apology issued and she has since been rehired.
Second, I don't think you should be mad at BO. I think many (if not most) of his efforts to push for legislation are being stymied by the Right. Remember John Mccain saying that they wouldn't work with the Dems?
Third, he's taken some heat, sure. Most presidents do. But tell Bill Clinton (best Prez ever, IMHO) that BO is under alot of pressure. He'd laugh in your face.
As an end note:
What people need to understand is, democrat or republican, all these guys are bought and paid for. Every. Single. One. The republicans might be easier to see as being someones property, but the democrats are too. They just hide it better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I didn't catch the edited tape part of your post. My bad homie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/22 05:23:03
"They invade our space...and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds...and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them PAY for what they've done!"
Obama has failed to impress a lot of people, that’s for sure, but he’s pretty much exactly what I thought he’d be. The guy is a moderate, a consensus builder, in the top job at a point in US politics defined by partisanship. He’s simultaneously in completely the wrong environment, and exactly what is needed to get out of this environment.
I will admit I have been a little surprised at the lack of political acumen he’s shown at times, but in terms of what he’s accomplished, I’m not sure how much can be achieved when the GOP has set themselves to block every possible piece of reform. US politics is geared to make obstruction quite easy, and relies on the goodwill of all representatives to keep obstructionism to a minimum. The GOP is going through a bout of the crazies right now, and hopefully winning one of the houses in the next race will see that craziness start to decrease.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
At my job today An Older guy told me "young black men should be more like Obama." I told him that they had enough men like him during slavery, because he is just getting whipped and not doing anything about it.I'm tired of taking hits for him.
Who are you taking hits for exactly?
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
He’s simultaneously in completely the wrong environment, and exactly what is needed to get out of this environment.
I dunno, I feel like what was/is needed would be some bipartian successes. When things are too partisan, the only way out is to stop being too partisan. There's no magic bullet besides simply stopping. It might help to work on issues that the parties are more aligned on, but I'm not sure what that'd be. Regardless, the key to it all is leadership. I'm not certain the mainstream media would allow anybody to do that, though, they profit far too much from division.
Honestly, my perception is that Obama is just as partisan as anybody else in DC. He's constantly going after the Republicans, he's not even remotely "post-partisan." He's been quite successful at passing a lot of legislation that's very ideologically upsetting the the GOP.
He's basically acting like a President with a super-majority that knows he's going to lose it. He's driving partisan initiatives through while he can.
I see nothing at all concilliatory about him, and contrary to what the OP is saying, I think he's FAR more aggressively counterattacking than GWB ever did.
[I dunno, I feel like what was/is needed would be some bipartian successes. When things are too partisan, the only way out is to stop being too partisan. There's no magic bullet besides simply stopping. It might help to work on issues that the parties are more aligned on, but I'm not sure what that'd be. Regardless, the key to it all is leadership. I'm not certain the mainstream media would allow anybody to do that, though, they profit far too much from division.
Agreed, until the parties are no longer at the mercy of the yellow news networks they're going to gouge eachothers eyes out continuously. The grandstanding over healthcare with the sheer childishness within both camps (though lets be real, the conservatives took the partisan rancor to an entirely new level) can be largely attributed to the continuously running cameras and the very public and emotional character of the debate as it unfolded on network news.
Honestly, my perception is that Obama is just as partisan as anybody else in DC. He's constantly going after the Republicans, he's not even remotely "post-partisan." He's been quite successful at passing a lot of legislation that's very ideologically upsetting the the GOP.
Thats not really correct, he's stocked his cabinet with a couple of conservatives and he's been rather conciliatory in his speeches while many of his reforms were actually pretty barebones and conciliatory to the republicans. The stimulus contained massive tax cuts (A concession) the healthcare bill lost the public option and literally hundreds of other functionary points (All concessions) and the financial reform bill isn't nearly as strong as it should be, largely because of conservative obstructionism.
He's been significantly more defensive than GHWB was, but keep in mind, until his second term bush floated around the whitehouse riding the 9/11 wave like it was some sort of impervious criticism shield. The man was untouchable because the public hadn't yet stopped crying every time someone waved a flag and sad "never forget". In his second term when everyone truly began to realize just how fethed up his administration was that disappeared with even his own supporters backing away from him. Obama has had to contend with being called a socialist several thousand times (literally) on air a day while contending with a minority party that can't even avoid filibustering his fething cabinet nominations.
He's basically acting like a President with a super-majority that knows he's going to lose it. He's driving partisan initiatives through while he can.
Thats certainly true, though historically presidents have acted this way. Obama benefits from the fact that many of his reforms actually are time sensitive (the stimulus and financial reforms certainly, and even the health care reform had ticking clock). With politics as partisan as they've become it's quite lucky he's managed to push through what he has. Once majorities have leveled out it's quite unlikely that anything will pass through republican hands without being altered to the point of unrecognizeabilty or simply stopped dead through senate or house procedural tricks.
I see nothing at all concilliatory about him, and contrary to what the OP is saying, I think he's FAR more aggressively counterattacking than GWB ever did.
If you can't see how conciliatory he has been then you haven't been paying much attention. The democratic party on the other hand has certainly been less so (though theres not much point in reaching across the isle when you're just going to have your hand bitten off at this point anyway), which may color how you perceive the commander in chief. It's sad, it's unlikely immigration reform will manage to plough through in the ways that financial and health reforms have, and it's the last major issue to be tackled with no brainer solutions.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/07/22 06:20:42
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2010/07/22 06:23:37
Subject: Re:A (long) rant about Democrats and Obama
For anyone that wants a link to an article that actually works.
I'm not entirely what this story has to do with the White house directly, but it was in poor form for the USDA administration to jump so quickly to firing the lady.
Nevermind, she said that the White house was directly involved...
The clip is from the mid-eighties... wow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/22 06:32:21
The stimulus contained massive tax cuts (A concession)...
All these concessions... Why does he need to make concessions when he's had a 60 vote supermajority in the Senate? He's not making concessions to the GOP... He's making concessions to moderates in his own party. How moderate is this legislation if he has to fight to round up moderates from his own party?
He's been significantly more defensive than GHWB was, but keep in mind, until his second term bush floated around the whitehouse riding the 9/11 wave like it was some sort of impervious criticism shield.
The shield was completely gone by 2003. When he chose to go into Iraq, the freakout was on. When there were no WMDs found, by November 2004, the freakout was fully on, and the mainstream media had a huge hardon for him.
I don't exactly mind Obama being defensive. I find his rhetoric annoying because I don't agree with him poltically, but I appreciate that he's actually doing something. GWB was a fool when it came to this. He just clammed up, and refused to talk to the media when they lied about him. I think he thought it was "un-Presidential" to argue with the press, but nothing looks less Presidential than letting people punk you on a daily basis.
Thats certainly true, though historically presidents have acted this way.
Again, I'm not criticizing his tactics. I'm criticizing the idea that he's not doing anything. He's doing everything poltically possible, and then some. He's willingly giving up seats to get this stuff done. He and Pelosi just had a spat over it, actually, that's how hard he's pushing.
If you can't see how conciliatory he has been then you haven't been paying much attention.
I'm not sure I see him as being as conciliatory as you do, but even to the extent that I do see it, I consider it meaningless. GWB did the same thing. It's just a ploy to seem reasonable. They make speeches for the voters to hear. It's what they say behind closed doors, and what they do in legislation that matters.
It's well documented how little Obama consulted with the Republicans on health care reform. It was so obvious and shameful that even his fawning admirers in the mainstream media started commenting on it, and it nearly lost him the momentum needed for his health care bill. Of course, they can't stay mad at their daddy, and he got his way.
Whatever though. You and Barack both "thought you'd get some applause on that one." Sorry dude. I don't love Barack like you do, and as we both know, nobody could ever love you as much as you do.
All these concessions... Why does he need to make concessions when he's had a 60 vote supermajority in the Senate? He's not making concessions to the GOP... He's making concessions to moderates in his own party. How moderate is this legislation if he has to fight to round up moderates from his own party?
Due to Al Frankens endless recount that actually only existed for the span of a few months and it assumes a fully cohesive body within his own party which doesn't exist. Without cross aisle votes even with the exact number of sears needed for a supermajority its still unlikely that either party can avoid a deadlock via filibuster. Theres always going to be that one dude in the back that wants to score some cornhusker kickbacks and sees his chance to get some points back home.
The shield was completely gone by 2003. When he chose to go into Iraq, the freakout was on. When there were no WMDs found, by November 2004, the freakout was fully on, and the mainstream media had a huge hardon for him.
That shield is what got us into Iraq with narry a conflicting voice in the media. Once the invasion started to falter the chorus got louder, but it didn't really hit stride until 04 when the absence of WMDs started to put major cracks on the patriotic edifice.
Again, I'm not criticizing his tactics. I'm criticizing the idea that he's not doing anything. He's doing everything poltically possible, and then some. He's willingly giving up seats to get this stuff done. He and Pelosi just had a spat over it, actually, that's how hard he's pushing.
Ahh. I mischaracterized what you had said when I read it. My bad.
I'm not sure I see him as being as conciliatory as you do, but even to the extent that I do see it, I consider it meaningless. GWB did the same thing.
When?
It's just a ploy to seem reasonable.
No, it's a ploy to attempt to secure cross aisle votes and swing independents (olympia snow for instance).
They make speeches for the voters to hear. It's what they say behind closed doors, and what they do in legislation that matters.
Like massive tax cuts and removing the public option! Glad you agree.
It's well documented how little Obama consulted with the Republicans on health care reform.
No. It's just well documented in your head.
It was so obvious and shameful that even his fawning admirers in the mainstream media started commenting on it, and it nearly lost him the momentum needed for his health care bill. Of course, they can't stay mad at their daddy, and he got his way.
The media. You mean death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels death panels ? Because that was about the extent of it. The lengths to which the healthcare bill was mischaracterized by the right is one of the most sickening political acts of the decade.
Whatever though. You and Barack both "thought you'd get some applause on that one."
No, I fully expected the kind of response I got.
Sorry dude. I don't love Barack like you do, and as we both know, nobody could ever love you as much as you do.
I'm not sure why your hitting that angle, but ok bro.
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Phryxis wrote:I dunno, I feel like what was/is needed would be some bipartian successes. When things are too partisan, the only way out is to stop being too partisan.
Sure, compromise will beget more compromise, but for compromise to start there needs to be an atmosphere that doesn’t see the other side as natural enemies, which requires a rejection of the blue state/red state culture war to bugger off and die, which requires people to reject the identity politics that’s been so embraced in the last few decades.
Which is a long way off, from what I can see, and way beyond the achievements of any one guy. Obama has squandered a lot of political capital making the effort, and gotten nothing for it, it’s a problem that’ll probably take a decade to solve, and it’ll only start being solved when people get sick of hearing politicians spouting the same old partisan rhetoric.
Honestly, my perception is that Obama is just as partisan as anybody else in DC. He's constantly going after the Republicans, he's not even remotely "post-partisan." He's been quite successful at passing a lot of legislation that's very ideologically upsetting the the GOP.
Believe me, the reforms he’s put through have been nothing like what a real partisan liberal would have enacted. That the GOP has wigged out as much as it has over a handful of pieces of legislation is all on them. I mean, look at the tepid final healthcare bill, and look at how strongly the Republicans resisted any attempt for any member to engage in the process. Look at the reaction to Olympia Snow casting her vote to simply move the bill out of committee.
I see nothing at all concilliatory about him, and contrary to what the OP is saying, I think he's FAR more aggressively counterattacking than GWB ever did.
Bush wasn’t that counterattacking because the Democrats were so feeble in opposing him. Ultimately, where did they make a stand against him? The only things Bush failed on were items like immigration reform, which failed because the Republicans didn’t like it.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Where is the mandatory picture of the asian man and the knives and stuff walking in on his wife cheating? I believe the caption says "This will not end well"
Phryxis wrote:This whole thing with this USDA woman is interesting, especially given the racism threads that have been going on. I'm suprised that she was canned so quickly, it shows a level of consistency and honesty I wouldn't expect of Democrats, I had always assumed they thought charges of racism was their club alone to wield.
I really don't know what the deal is, if she was being racist or not, and I don't really care. I find it odd that they threw her under the bus so fast, and then I also find it hilarious that the mainstream media manages to find a way to fit it to their template. The only stories in the world are white people being racist, and black people being falsely accused of being racist. WHEEEEE! Idiots.
Basically it went like this: a clip was released showing a woman in the Department of Agriculture giving a speech (I'm not sure who before) in which she said that while working with a private charity in flood relief twenty years ago, she met up with a white farmer who she thought was being acting "superior" to her because she was black, and so she dragged her feet in helping him (and noted that she felt she should be helping out the many black farmers who had been caught in the flood instead). This clip made her look like a douche (naturally), and so she was fired by the white house and condemned by the NAACP. Then the full clip of the incident came out, and she went on in the story to say that she realized that she had been in the wrong, kept from her duty by her own racism, and went back and put extra effort into helping the white farmer sell his farm (in an interview about the incident, the farmer said that he hadn't thought she was particularly unhelpful in the first place, and had considered her a friend). The NAACP retracted its condemnation of the incident, and evidently she was rehired.
However, some of the conservative complaints about the incident - maintained even after the full footage was released - were the most absurd examples of hysterical political correctness I've seen in a long time. I mean, it was bad, I really hope this doesn't start to catch on...
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
If you watch the entire clip there was plenty to be fired over, or more importantly to never have been hired over.
The initial clip was edited, but the full clip shows she's a Marxist who said "his people" this etc.
Plus she's a government worker, working for ag department, whats with a commie in the damn ag department? Ag department shouldn't even exist. Fire her, fire her boss, fire all of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the positive polling suggests Obama's support continues to build:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/22 13:06:13
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
sexiest_hero wrote: I'm used to real visionaries like President JFK, and ballsy Democrats like Bill Clinton (No I don't care what he does in his private time). What I get is a bunch of spineless puddles of fail, led by the most noddle back-boned president since ever.
Except that your characterization is wrong. Clinton wasn't a visionary and didn't have a backbone. Remember what happened when he tried to pass health care? People got upset so he quit and never looked back. Other than the fact that the decade was generally prosperous, the Clinton presidency was mostly about a lot of little wins and a glaring absence of big ones. I mean, think about it. What was the great accomplishment of his adminstration? NAFTA or welfare reform? Those were GOP initiatives. Heck, you could make the case that Gore has the better legacy from that administration since he was the technonerd pushing so hard internally for more government funding of the "information superhighway"/Internet, which helped drive so much economic development later in the decade. It's why Clinton tried so hard at the end to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It was a legacy thing that he kind of needed. Oh, and he failed to do that too.
The Dems are fairly spineless overall, and can't stay on message to save their lives. And I think Obama could have thrown his weight around more at times. But after what went down with health care you can't possibly say he's spineless. He could have quit at any point and saved his poll numbers. He could have pulled out of Afghanistan and probably saved his poll numbers. Cripes, after the midterms he'll probably take on immigration and that giant clusterfeth too. If anything, the guy is going for broke in his first term.
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
Orkeosaurus wrote:
However, some of the conservative complaints about the incident - maintained even after the full footage was released - were the most absurd examples of hysterical political correctness I've seen in a long time. I mean, it was bad, I really hope this doesn't start to catch on...
Frazzled wrote:
If you watch the entire clip there was plenty to be fired over, or more importantly to never have been hired over.
The initial clip was edited, but the full clip shows she's a Marxist who said "his people" this etc.
Too late.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
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