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I am beginning a Space Wolves army and while looking through Grey Hunters section it says that they have Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon and Boltgun. Does this mean that I am able to have both the benefits of a Boltgun AND get the additional close combat attack from having a pistol and CC weapon? If so do I have to have all three on the models or is it understood that they have all three unless otherwise upgraded?

you have all three and get both the benefits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You have all three and get both the benefits. you still can't charge if you fire rapid fire weapons though

For modeling, most of my GH have a bolter and CCW. I think it looks cool and they stand out from the blood claws that only have BP & CCW. If you are worried about representing all 3 then give them bolter & CCW then glue some pistol holsters on their belt. I don't think that's necessary but to be technically legal you'd have to.

Synnister wrote:For modeling, most of my GH have a bolter and CCW. I think it looks cool and they stand out from the blood claws that only have BP & CCW. If you are worried about representing all 3 then give them bolter & CCW then glue some pistol holsters on their belt. I don't think that's necessary but to be technically legal you'd have to.

I think thats the best way to solve the modeling equipment of GH/BC. But any equipment listed as base equipment (bolter, bolt pistol and cc weapon for GH) is assumed to be on the model no matter what the model actualy carry; only upgrades have to be represented in actual plastic/metal. At least as I understand it.

By RAW you'll have to model all weapons, regardless of whether they are options or standard equipment.

But, I don't think you'll find anyone who will have a problem with Synnister's method. Most will probably even accept Grey Hunters carrying only a single bolter.

Enginseer wrote:By RAW you'll have to model all weapons, regardless of whether they are options or standard equipment.

Page?

Page 47 has rules regarding character models WYSIWYG. . . that is the part most people will claim covers all models.

So, if you were going against a SW army in a tournament, you (or, i guess, someone) could theoretically have a problem with a grey hunter group that had one or more model with only 2 of the 3 weapons a grey hunter is supposed to have?

Thats seems a bit silly to me, since all three are included in their default profile.

If you play by pure RAW, yes.


...But I really think there isn't anyone around who does. If you, however, meet TFG, I think you can be sure the TO rules in the SW player's favour.

kirsanth wrote:Page 47 has rules regarding character models WYSIWYG. . . that is the part most people will claim covers all models.

Thanks!
If you didn't extend the rule to other models than characters, you wouldn't be required to model heavy/special weapons.

Yeah, i think i would just stare at anyone like they were slowed if they said my GH could not shoot his bolt pistol cuz the model didn't have one...

By that same logic you'd have to model on two different kinds of grenades (frag and krak) onto each model in order for them to use them as well...

Plus, on page 47 is says that you have to model the "options", which could theoretically mean only the items in the "options" section of each unit's army list entry.

Grrr RAW is so troublesome sometimes...

jcd386 wrote:Yeah, i think i would just stare at anyone like they were slowed if they said my GH could not shoot his bolt pistol cuz the model didn't have one...

Yeah I'd do that too. It's obvious he can't shoot because he lacks a locomotive system - musculoskeletal or otherwise - not because he doesn't have the gun.


And yes that's definition of optional in action, if you have to take it it's not optional, if it's not optional then it doesn't have to be "visually
represented on the model". Now, here's the trick; with that quote in mind on could - by RAW - paint 'Big Shoota' or 'Powerklaw' onto a model to visually represent the fact that that guy is 'different' or even just put a sticker on him~!

I thought you rule allowed you to mix and match such as a squad of 10 GH, 5 have BP and CCW and 5 have BGs. is that correct?

No, all Grey Hunters have a Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, and a close combat weapon by default, and always have all three unless they are replaced by a weapon option (such as replacing his bolter with a meltagun). Page 89 of their codex.

This lets the Grey Hunters always get 2 attacks in close combat (BP + CCW) and have a choice between shooting their Boltguns or Bolt pistols in the shooting phase (if you want to assault, you pick the Bolt Pistols), and is one of the things that makes them so good.

The problem the OP was wondering about is whether or not he has to actually model each GH with all three weapons...I would argue that he does not.

EDIT: Wolf Guard, on the other hand, do have to choose between a Bolt Pistol and a Boltgun, so that might have been what you were thinking of.

SanguinaryGuard wrote:I thought you rule allowed you to mix and match such as a squad of 10 GH, 5 have BP and CCW and 5 have BGs. is that correct?

That is not Correct; All Grey hunters(unless upgraded with Special weapons) Have A Bolter, a Bolt Pistol, and A close Combat Weapon.

If the grey Hunter has a Flamer, melta, or Plasma, he will no longer have the Bolter but will still have the BP+CCW.

If the grey hunter has a Power weapon or Power Fist; he will no longer have the basic CCW but still have the BP and Bolter.

If the grey hunter has a Plasma Pistol he will only have the Bolter and the CCW (along with the PP).

Finally If he has either Mark of the Wulfen, or a Wolf Standard he has the 3 basic weapons as well.

That's awesome. So Grey Hunters get 2 attacks base? And Mark of the Wulfen is amazing. D6+1 Rending? Amazing. I wish the Wulfen from Eye of Terror were that good.

No, they get 1 attack base, +1 for their pistol. This matters when you give them a weapon such as a Power Fist, which does not gain an extra attack from pistols.

So, a grey hunter with a Power Fist would only get to hit once (unless he had gained another attack from assaulting, or his counter attack rule).

Thats what i meant. 1 attack plus the 1 for the pistol. And do power weapons get the extra attack with a pistol?

Yes, and it counts as a Power Weapon attack (page 42 of rulebook).

I read the rulebook but there's nothing under the Power Weapon of Power Fist sections that say whether or not they get their attacks, just that PF attacks are made at I:1

lol.

Page 42, near the bottom of the page:

"A normal and a special weapon"

It says they get one more attack, and that all attack count as the special attack, unless that weapon is a PF, TH, or LC.

Haha, my bad. I found what you were talking about. I never knew you could give a model two PF's, sounds gnarly!

SanguinaryGuard wrote:Haha, my bad. I found what you were talking about. I never knew you could give a model two PF's, sounds gnarly!

marneus calgar would agree.

warboss wrote:

SanguinaryGuard wrote:Haha, my bad. I found what you were talking about. I never knew you could give a model two PF's, sounds gnarly!

marneus calgar would agree.

Of course being armed with 2 different Special Close combat weapons he never gains the bonus attack either.

Calgar also carries a Power Sword, along with the Paired Power Fists.

2 Different Special Close combat weapons are also covered on Page 42 of the BRB, and States such models never get the bonus Attack.

This again?

Kommissar Kel wrote:

warboss wrote:

SanguinaryGuard wrote:Haha, my bad. I found what you were talking about. I never knew you could give a model two PF's, sounds gnarly!

marneus calgar would agree.

Of course being armed with 2 different Special Close combat weapons he never gains the bonus attack either.

Calgar also carries a Power Sword, along with the Paired Power Fists.

2 Different Special Close combat weapons are also covered on Page 42 of the BRB, and States such models never get the bonus Attack.

dude, get over yourself. he said a model having two PFs sounds gnarly and i posted a pic of marneus punching the air wielding two powerfists. do you deny that the model has two powerfists? the pic is appropriate to the comment and no one mentioned the rules. i'm fully aware of the multiple long heated threads that argue whether or not he gets an extra attack (which, btw, the opposing side also has arguments in their favor). you do NOT need to be the dakka Gauntlets of Ultramar policeman.