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Sorry if I missed this. Normally, it's a simple question: Chakax gives his enemies ASL, so if they had ASF and what-not. However, I was wondering how this works if someone already had ASL, combined with ASL. For instance, say you have an Orc with a Great Weapon. Bash 'em Ladz is now cast on the Orc, meaning he has Always Strikes First + Always Strikes Last. Thus, they cancel each other out. Now he's hit by ASL again. Does he go last now, or does this go with the other ASL and thus keep him at initiative order?

This is hard to say... Keys to Eternity Chamber negates charges and abilities of ASF , does spells casted on the Orcs count as abilities?

I dunno :<

Hmm, I was going to say something but then I read the FAQ and they changed it. They got rid of the part where it says he ignores where they normally would strike first and it's replaced with the enemy getting ASL (in a challenge).

And ASL + ASF = initiative.

Aside from extra attack and something else (I forget what), special rules are not cumulative, so you can't have double ASL. It is only considered once. At least, thats how I see it according to the FAQ.

LunaHound wrote:This is hard to say... Keys to Eternity Chamber negates charges and abilities of ASF , does spells casted on the Orcs count as abilities?

I dunno :<

Technically, Bash 'em Lads is ASF, but Waaagh! is not (Waaagh is just the units always go first, no ASF rule as was clarified for Bash 'Em Lads in the FAQ). Either way, the main argument is as ssREV touched on (namely, are special rules cumulative). It just seems one of those things that, while rare, might come up in a game (Having ASF, ASL, and being hit by another ASL after they're negated). I want to say that they're not cumulative, but I can see an argument for it being that way.

The rules say they are not cumulative. It is very clear in the new FAQ.

Is there a distinction between the opponent gaining the always strikes last rule, and just flat out saying "the enemy always strikes last"?

The FAQ has "Always Strikes Last" capitalized like when they make other referenced to special rules, so I doubt it.

Chakax' rules are changed via the FAQ. It no longer says the enemy always strikes last, so that's irrelevant.

The FAQ still states that his opponent in a duel Always Strikes Last.

"When fighting in a challenge, Chakax gains a 5+ ward save and his opponent Always Strikes Last.”

Not sure what youre on about duke....

Yeah, but that's clearly just giving him a Special Rule. The Liz book had a lengthier entry including "automatically strikes last, even if they charged or have an ability that would normally allow them to strike first" lower case. Hence the question above. But since that was removed in the FAQ it doesn't matter. But that block of text, if it stood, woul read to be the enemy is ASL even if given ASF (i.e, and inifinte ASL that can't be broken). But since they changed it they are merely give the opponent ASL and if they also have ASF, the rules state they go to initiative.

Ah right, poor phrasing initially - through you were saying they didnt have ASL....