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Hi,
I'm back into 40k from playing 3rd ed many years ago.

I have an Eldar force and have come into troubles when dealing with Storm Shield equipped Marines. In this case they were Calvary mounted Space Wolves, Toughness 5, and 2 wounds!!!! I cant believe they can equip units that benefit from a 3++ save alongside these other stats- ho hum.

Anyways, I had an Annihalation game against a 1500pt space wolves force. His lord on a great wolf and unit of 5 calvary 3++, T5 W2 managed to withstand 2 turns of Eldar firepower, down a Wraithlord, jetbike squadron and Howling Banshee unit without breaking a sweat.

Admittedly, my deployment underestimated these units but I need some pointers on dealing with rock hard assult infantry/calvary like these guys.

Ta

While its a pain to kill SS toting units with normal MEQ killing weapons they will eventually fall if you make them take a lot of saves and I know from playing against them eldar can get a crap load of str 6 shots and you got guide too to up the number of shots that connect. Make them roll a lot of dice and they will fall especially if they are on wolves instead of in a transport.

In the form of walkers. Walkers with scatter lasers.

Add guide and doom at your leisure.

They'll put alot of wounds out.

I usually take at least two squadrons of scatter walkers.

war walkers with dual scatter lasers, guided. 3 walkers putting out 8 shots each, guided, will put 4 wounds on the squad of thunderwolves. Repeat three times, and they will all be dead.

alternatively, a squad of fortuned seers on jetbikes will eat through this unit. a squad of 10 seers on bikes w/ an attached farseer will do 6 wounds to the thunderwolves before they can even strike... and with a 3+ / 4+ save, re-rolling fails.. your more durable than he is.

This:

Honersstodnt wrote:war walkers with dual scatter lasers, guided. 3 walkers putting out 8 shots each, guided, will put 4 wounds on the squad of thunderwolves. Repeat three times, and they will all be dead.

alternatively, a squad of fortuned seers on jetbikes will eat through this unit. a squad of 10 seers on bikes w/ an attached farseer will do 6 wounds to the thunderwolves before they can even strike... and with a 3+ / 4+ save, re-rolling fails.. your more durable than he is.

+1

Honersstodnt wrote:war walkers with dual scatter lasers, guided. 3 walkers putting out 8 shots each, guided, will put 4 wounds on the squad of thunderwolves. Repeat three times, and they will all be dead.

alternatively, a squad of fortuned seers on jetbikes will eat through this unit. a squad of 10 seers on bikes w/ an attached farseer will do 6 wounds to the thunderwolves before they can even strike... and with a 3+ / 4+ save, re-rolling fails.. your more durable than he is.

That second part though... you can find a better use for a council.

Throwing your unit at the enemy and losing fortune will not end well when they instant kill the farseer.

I would say not getting close is the better option.

Cheers guys,
I did doom this unit each turn and had a good turn of fire (Scatter lasers through to S. Catapults gave me plenty of dice). He rolled lucky throughout and didn't really yake any wounds.

the thing that ousted me was the speed of his unit (fleet & calvery in a SM army!). Got any pointers for keeping them out of assult range?

Serpents are tuff as nails and faster than any wolf.

Demolish his longfangs and watch him struggle to take down fast tanks who he hits on 6+ in cc and are almost impervious to his meltas

Edit: Do wolfs with hammers/fists still get their CC rending thing?

Have I missed something. I thought only one TW rider could equip a SS although an IC with a SS could also join the unit.

Chimaera wrote:Have I missed something. I thought only one TW rider could equip a SS although an IC could also join the unit with a SS.

Yes you did any wolf may have a shield in exchange for his pistol, but only one wolf may exchange his CCW for a shield (other options are available as well).

Now its obvious why most people do it, being cavalary wolfs dont rally need guns becouse shooting means you miss out on using fleet.

Edit: Theres also the biker nob-esque trick of giving all the wolfs in the pack different equipment:
5 wolfs with shields, 1 with MotW, 1 with hammer, 1 with Axe, 1 with Fist, 1 with Claw and you have the option of changing any of those for a PW to shave some points (lets face it thats pretty pricey)

HoverBoy wrote:

Chimaera wrote:Have I missed something. I thought only one TW rider could equip a SS although an IC could also join the unit with a SS.

Yes you did any wolf may have a shield in exchange for his pistol, but only one wolf may exchange his CCW for a shield (other options are available as well).

Now its obvious why most people do it, being cavalary wolfs dont rally need guns becouse shooting means you miss out on using fleet.

LOL now I see it under the ranged weapons. For some reason my brain just couldn't register it. Still at 400+ points it's a lot to invest in 5 models. Add in a WL and thats 600+ pts. Would be interesting to field though. Hopefully GW will eventually get in gear and produce some TW cavalry.

Chimaera wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:

Chimaera wrote:Have I missed something. I thought only one TW rider could equip a SS although an IC could also join the unit with a SS.

Yes you did any wolf may have a shield in exchange for his pistol, but only one wolf may exchange his CCW for a shield (other options are available as well).

Now its obvious why most people do it, being cavalary wolfs dont rally need guns becouse shooting means you miss out on using fleet.

LOL now I see it under the ranged weapons. For some reason my brain just couldn't register it. Still at 400+ points it's a lot to invest in 5 models. Add in a WL and thats 600+ pts. Would be interesting to field though. Hopefully GW will eventually get in gear and produce some TW cavalry.

505 pts in the build i suggested

Altho some people spend even more on such units.

HoverBoy wrote:

Chimaera wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:

Chimaera wrote:Have I missed something. I thought only one TW rider could equip a SS although an IC could also join the unit with a SS.

Yes you did any wolf may have a shield in exchange for his pistol, but only one wolf may exchange his CCW for a shield (other options are available as well).

Now its obvious why most people do it, being cavalary wolfs dont rally need guns becouse shooting means you miss out on using fleet.

LOL now I see it under the ranged weapons. For some reason my brain just couldn't register it. Still at 400+ points it's a lot to invest in 5 models. Add in a WL and thats 600+ pts. Would be interesting to field though. Hopefully GW will eventually get in gear and produce some TW cavalry.

505 pts in the build i suggested

Altho some people spend even more on such units.

The funny thing is I put the notion of TW cavalry to bed until GW release them. This has now sparked off my interest in them again.

What have i started...

Vortex Grenade...
or just forcing alot of saves either armor or inv...

You know what...I think I'll suggest the humble bolter. Just to spite a certain someone

Honestly, with stuff that has such a crazy invul save, a lot of times you're almost better off with just lots of mediocre fire to take them down. Over a large enough series of die rolls , everything is going to roll a 1 or 2. You mentioned Eldar, well, nothing brings terror into my heart quite like the sight of Eldrad Guiding a bunch of Dire Avengers right after Dooming my big scary unit and then having them Bladestorm into me.

Well, try a mech list.
Lots of shots bring them down.
A Seer Council can tie them up.

@Wuestenfux:

A Seer Council can tie them up.

Who's tying up who?

daedalus wrote:Honestly, with stuff that has such a crazy invul save, a lot of times you're almost better off with just lots of mediocre fire to take them down. Over a large enough series of die rolls , everything is going to roll a 1 or 2. You mentioned Eldar, well, nothing brings terror into my heart quite like the sight of Eldrad Guiding a bunch of Dire Avengers right after Dooming my big scary unit and then having them Bladestorm into me.

You'll get a little more than 5 wounds on average after a 10-man+twin-shuri Exarch Guide/Doom Bladestorm, so that's not a bad way to go. Having two units pour fire into them would be a little more effective. Deploy embarked DA's+Seer near the middle of your deployment zone, keeping units outside the possible 24" charge range for the unit to lure them close enough, possibly tempting your opponent with an "expendable" unit - a 5-man DA squad is cheap and can always hold an objective if it's not killed in the charge. Then, disembark, unleash heck, and then mech up after storming.

War-walkers helped with a Guide/Doom seer fare about the same, trading accuracy for better wounding, but you can keep the seer in the DA's nearby Serpent so they won't get shot up. A combination of the two would probably be the best way to go.

I'd not pit my jetseer council vs. WL/TWC - tarpitting my council and eliminating the advantage of their speed favors the wolves player.

Now your talking! Its all about the shurikan/doom/guided/bladestorm with a c.c unit (Avatar/ Wraithlord/ Banshees) to finish any stragglers.

Ill be ready for him next time!

A guided WW squadron with Scatter lasers and a 10 man Bladestorming DA squad will put 9.5 unsaved wounds on a TWC squad. As people have suggested before, weight of fire is the cure to units like these.

At 80-105 points per model, his thunderwolf calvary unit is an incredible investment of points. With only 10 wounds on a 3+/3++ save it looks fragile as well.
Remember, he wlll fail one out of every 3 saves, so your looking at needing to make him take 30 saves to wipe out the unit.

The trick here is doom. Doom can take a shuriken cat and change its chances of wounding from ~33% to ~55%. In the case of scatter lasers or shuriken cannons, it changes the chances of wounding from ~66% to ~88%

Take 2 squads of dire avengers (10 man strong) each in a wave serpent with TL shuriken cannon and a normal shuriken cannon.
One of those squads using bladestorm can fire 30 times, with 20 shots expecting to hit. Out of those 11 will wound a doomed unit. The shuriken cannon will hit ~4 times and wound ~4 times, for a total of 15 wounds from one squad. Using two of those squads will throw an average of 30 wounds the thunderwolf calvary, wiping the unit out.

To ensure that you 'seal the deal', throw some extra firepower on them, such as a squad of dark reapers, or walkers with skatter lasers will help to ensure your not screwed by a little bad dice rolling.