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I was planning on buying and painting a brand new SM force. I plan on doing Raven guard. So far I have a land speeder I plan on magnetizing and the Captain Korvydae model that has a jump pack and thunder hammer. Any ideas of what I should buy to start of with? the Battle force seems like its a great deal but I'm not sure.

MrBakelsworth wrote:I was planning on buying and painting a brand new SM force. I plan on doing Raven guard. So far I have a land speeder I plan on magnetizing and the Captain Korvydae model that has a jump pack and thunder hammer. Any ideas of what I should buy to start of with? the Battle force seems like its a great deal but I'm not sure.

The BF is fine. Two would be better, yielding 3 full tacticals, and a complete scout crew and two rhinos; fairly useful in 5e's Mech environment. As for the full set of jumpers? Okay too.

After that, it'd be up to how you want to personalize your army.

How about
1x SM Captain w/ Jump Pack, Artificer Armour, thunder hammer, and digital weapons
10x Tac squad w/ meltagun, missile launcher Sgt with power fist Rhino with SB
5x Combat squad Sgt with Plasma pistol and melta bombs
5x scout squad Sgt keeps bolter takes melta bombs
5x assault squad w/ flamer Sgt w/ pair of Lightning claws
3x land speeder squadron w/ typhoon missile launchers
1x Predator all las cannons
1x land speeder storm with heavy flamer

1250 pts

captains are quite poor choices for most armies in this edition... you'd be better served with a jump chaplain to go with the assault squad. Librarians are also a good choice, either on foot, going with a squad in a razorback, or with a jump pack, with a squad of assault marines.

Assault squads themselves are sub-par, really... not much better than regular marines in assault, just +1 attack each. They can move fast, though, so they are useful in an anti-light infantry role. The squad should really be 10 guys in size, and 2 of them need flamers.

the only reason to take 5 man tac squads is to gain access to another razorback, and hold it as a scoring unit on an objective.

if your using a scout squad in a storm (usually a sub-par choice, because they are so easy to kill and only marginally effective) make sure your sergeant has a power fist, so he can take down tanks in his first turn charge. Melta bombs are alright, but i'd rather have 3 attacks from a fist than 1 attack from a melta bomb.

typhoon speeders are an excellent choice... I'd suggest using them in 3 squadrons of 1, instead of 1 squadron of 3, so you can spread their fire around, hitting more than just 1 target. Makes them harder to kill, as well.

If your using a predator (not a bad idea, they rock), the best configuration for anti-tank is autocannon + 2x lascannons. the 45 points for the TLLC turret is wayyy over-costed. You can also use them with an autocannon + 2x heavy bolters for a very cheap and effective fire support platform.

I totally understand the idea with the captain i bought the model mostly because I thought he just looked awsome. could i field it as something else? everything else thought goes on what i have and what i'm planning on buying in the near future i got the storm for about 12 bucks. as far as the land speeders I like the idea of that but not sure if i want to use up all of the my fast attacks on them. plus i like the idea of using my assault squad as a screen with some punch with the captain

Assault Squads are ok. they do require some proper usage to be effective. mainly as a distraction uniit that kills weak enemies.


the Captain is ok as well. you could use the model as a Assault sergent and get a Jpack Chaplain as an HQ. if you like the model use it.


Typhoons are excellent. remember that Frag missiles are Defensive weapons. move 12" and shoot both the HB and the Frags or move 12" and fire the Kraks.

Scouts in storms are really one shot Tank killers. If the enemy has a 4+ save or worse you can send them in against a support unit, but anything with 3+ shouldn't be touched. I reccomend the Fist and MBs. just because if your auto-hitting the bombs are better.

Are vanguard veterans worth their salt? and i feel rather partial to meltaguns over flamers.

vanguard can't take melta guns either :(

and no, they are not worth it... they are FAR too expensive. the ONLY possible use for vanguard would be if you want a squad of them without jump packs, in a land raider, led by a chaplain, to deal with massed light infantry. 10 on foot led by a sergeant with a relic blade would be a reasonable 240 points. However, you need to consider that a 5 man terminator squad would cost only 200 points, and be more survivable, and arguably more killy.

Vanguard Veterans?

in short: No.

in long: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why? they are overcosted as you have to PAY for Jump Packs, they only come with Chainswords and BPs so to make them Decent in CC you have to shell out more pts then they are worth. a fully tooled up Vanguard veteran squad can pull over 40 pts per model. anytime a CC option for SMs approaches Assault Terminator levels it is too expensive.

40+ pts for a power armoured model is waaaaaaay too expensive.

So are there any CC SM that are good Assault termies? I do like terminators. maybe also a Dread I do like the Raven Guard FW Dread


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Hmm sternguards are the same price without jump pack and are more versatile

if you like CC dreads do Ironclads.

AV13 with 2 DCCWs instead of 1.

codex space marines ONE major advantage over all variant codex are their assault terminators.

at 40 points per terminator, their thunderhammer/stormshield veterans are cheap, ultra-hard to kill, and ultra-killy in hand to hand. Throw in 1-2 lightning claw terminators per squad of 5 assault terminators (with the remainder being thunderhammer/stormshield) and you have a very, very cost effective assault unit that can handle any other unit in the game.

I never leave home without a squad of them in a land raider.

5 man assault termie squads are the way to go. I like to split it 3 TH/SS and 2 LC and stick them in a land raider

yea, I normally take 4x TH/SS and 1 LC.

I've been experimenting with taking a squad of 10 terminators, 8x TH/SS 2x LC, a dedicated raider for transport, and a heavy raider to transport the combat squad. gives me 2 raiders full of terminators, at the cost of 2 force org slots... letting me pump in more dreadnoughts and predators than normal for covering fire

worked out well in my first test game, i'll see how it does in some other games.

I just finished a tournament (my first admittedly) where I took Lysander with 5 assault termies (3 TH/SS, 2 LC)

They rocked.

Only games they didnt make me proud were Nids (where the big bugs held them up too long) and against super fast armies (like ravenwing bikes/speeder army)

Ironclad dread is great if used well. In one game I dropped off my termies who killed the unit they charged, the enemy land raider drove up and out charged Belial + 5 Dark Angels terminators into my termies - Lysander and 2 Thunder Hammer termies were left when they were all dead.

Next turn though my Ironclad move forward, unloaded his meltagun into the land raider (immobilising it) then he charged it with his seismic hammer (killing it twice).

Be careful about too much elites though - they really rock and are so much fun but they are massive points sinks - and troops are what win you the game

There is nothing more frustrating than having your troops in combat with something you know is going to kill them - marines need protection (rhino is great) and they need to project a threat (why fists are so good)

meltagun, combimelta fist SGT means 2 melta shots from the rhino windows against armour (or on foot after movement)

if your just starting recommend playing lots of games with 'counts as' models - while its nice to plastic glue a model really solidly then paint it up to the best standard you can, the amount of changing your mind you are going to do really makes life easier if you work out a really good idea of what you want before you buy it all

Rhinos are always gold
As are bolter power armoured marines

Mix of other choices though - thunder hammer wielding company champion (?), mix of fast vs elite vs heavy support - you will try something in a game then drop it

IMO if you put 10 assault terminators in 2 land raiders - although thats really scary, thats also 900 points of your army.

10 rapid firing bolters can bring down 1-3 terminators reliably, if your termies then charge a fist could bring down another - they need their raiders to protect them and so you can project them, but they just are so expensive and if their not killing points off the enemy every turn, the rest of your army (what little there is) is going to struggle

regarding captains - IMO best fit out is relic blade so you can take advantage of that I5 - means no benefit from pistol which sucks but S6 can threaten most things and killing marines on 3s to hit and 2s to wound is great.

I think over time I'm going to try to get a lot of the SM choices I know now not to really worry about the vanguard unit because of the insane point cost. The terminators though sound like a very solid choice. Maybe a 5 man squad of each? The close combat in a Land Raider then the regular teleport in? As far as Land raiders go Crusader or Redeemer?

shooty terminators are very points-inefficient, and only useful in very specific tactical situations, when you plan your army around them. For example, if I was going to take tactical terminators, i'd take a 10 man squad, with 4x chainfists and 2x cyclone launchers, split them up with combat squads, and run them with 2 autocannon / ccw dreadnoughts... and run a dread / combat squad of terminators as mobile countercharge units to support a shooty marine gunline style army.

generally, assault terminators are better. I prefer the normal lascannon land raider. anti-infantry is easy to get in other places of the SM codex, while twin linked lascannon fire is not easy to get anywhere else. Razorbacks, land raiders, dreadnoughts, and predators are about it, and none of those other vehicles can split lascannon fire either, which is a huge advantage.

Is a venerable dreadnought even worth the extra 60 pts?

it most certaintly is.

it is roughly equivilant to a 4+ save.


Glancing hits will almost all the time be assured of being stunned or Shaken and Penetrating hits have a 66% chance of downgrading a Wrecked or Explodes to something less severe.

the thing about venerable dreadnoughts, is that you almost never want to have them re-roll the damage result unless its a destroyed result. so, if they pen4 and immobilize your venerable dreadnought, odds are pretty good a re-roll will destroy you... so normally you just accept the first roll.

This has the effect of it keeping your dreadnoughts alive much longer, but they are often fully-functional as long as a normal dreadnought. This leads me to the reasoning that i'd rather have a regular dreadnought most of the time, UNLESS (and this is a specific instance) i'm relying on my dreads as my only hand to hand support, and need them to survive longer periods of time when engaging things in hand to hand.

so, if I have assault terminators in the list... i'll take normal dreads. If I have only dreads as my counter-charge, i'll take the venerable upgrade, because even when crippled with both weapons blown off, you can hold things in hand to hand, which is what i'm looking for as their main purpose.

I have been thinking about venerable

Anything less than 5 with a CCW and extra armour and its still a massive bullet magnet (which you want)

ie give it DCCW and Assault Cannon - thats 4x St6 Rending shots that hit 2+ (very nice..) and threat range 24 is not insignificant if he deployed forward and moved forward for at least a turn

So he gets immobilised - so long as he can shoot something he is still valuable

If he cannot shoot anything next turn (and you doubt he will unless he runs for a turn) - unless its a KP mission (which case you leave it) you reroll

1 or 2 dont bother you (much) as you have EA. 3 is a pain but hey so be it.

Im coming around to the idea of a ven.

*

Edit spelling

I think I'm going to get a regular Dread and run him with a ccw and try out the plasma cannon but mostly either the multi-melta and assault cannon. definitely buying some assault terminators.


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Oh yeah do the regular GW weapons sprues fit on the forge world dreads?

Raven Guard are FTW. Good choice in an army. I just started collecting them. Build up your army unit by unit, go for stuff that you like the look of. If you're going for drop pods make sure to pick an odd number. either 3 or 5. That way you can drop 2 or 3 of them on the first turn.

Raven Guard are a great army. Shrike is one of the best options in a special character. Giving fleet to a whole army of space marines makes them very lethal...

uhhh, a coomander, a command squad, and a few tacs squads and rhinos

yeah I already painted captain Korvydae. all I have to do is do the basing. I've already bought a land speeder need to get two more and I'll get a battle force. along with the bits box I've slowly put together I'll have two full tac squads. I want to get a Vindicator and I really want to get the Raven Guard Dreadnaught from Forge world along with the transfer sheet (finally). Anyone get a Forge World Dread?

I got an arm from them once.

they have great Customer service. was missing a piece of my Titan. they shipped it to me and i had it in 3 days.