Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As a Guard Player, How would you deal with the following units:

Swarm Lord.

Zoanthropes.

Trygon.

Mawloc.

Hoard of 30 assault marines with FNP.

Assault Terminators.

Eldar Skimmers (Hydra are good, but its hard to get your hands on hydra)

Mephiston.


Any generally well working tactics? My army is very versatile, I will most likely have the unit you need for the job, I just want to know if anyone has some rock solid tactics that generlly never fail.

I made my hydras with chimeras and autocannons. I think they are pretty good against a lot of different units, as long as they don't have FNP.

Units that DO have FNP, you have to deal with using melta guns or plasma guns. I'm not sure if it's the best unit in the game, but as a specific counter to BA (because they are most dangerous to mech guard, IMO) I've started using vet squads with 3x plasma gun and demolitions. They come in at 145 points for 10 3T 5+ wounds, but they can cause ridiculous damage to deep-striking BAs.

20 man commieblob to tarpit mephiston, as well as bubblewrap.

20 man blobs don't last that long against a unit with that many attacks. You can maybe tarpit him long enough to back mephiston up with an assault squad... but you need a bigger blob if you want it to be more reliable.

Ideally, I'd handle everything on that list with rough riders.

As I don't have any modeled, against any of those I'd rely on BiD plasma or melta (whichever happened to be around), and then finishing it off with a power blob.

Jaon
lots of lascannons and lasguns. when in doubt by more of these. these will handle everything you listed except for the assault marines with fnp. battlecannons and rough riders answer them pretty well. the ig codex is the ultimate tool box. so shiney....
AF

Ailaros wrote:Ideally, I'd handle everything on that list with rough riders.

As I don't have any modeled, against any of those I'd rely on BiD plasma or melta (whichever happened to be around), and then finishing it off with a power blob.

The problem with rough riders is that against other shooty lists they are a liability rather than a strength.

willydstyle wrote:The problem with rough riders is that against other shooty lists they are a liability rather than a strength.

I'm not going to say that using them isn't difficult, but, with the exception of the eldar vehicles, riders are either the best way to deal with them fastest, or the best points-effective (or both).

They're like priests or flamers - difficult to use, but pays huge dividends when you learn to use them right.

I disagree. They're useful against aggressive armies because you can leave them in reserves to get a nearly guaranteed counter-assault. However, against an enemy with no desire to leave his deployment zone until later in the game, they will get shot the turn before they present a dangers.

manticores and ratlings.

Kill things dead good.

also 9 lascannons and 20 guardsmen surroundingthem will knock things out quick using bring itdown.

willydstyle wrote:I disagree. They're useful against aggressive armies because you can leave them in reserves to get a nearly guaranteed counter-assault. However, against an enemy with no desire to leave his deployment zone until later in the game, they will get shot the turn before they present a dangers.

Use Creed and ouflank

:-) Well, playing both BA and Guard, I'd say the 30 Assault Marines? Well, if I'm deep striking, I fear the Artillery and mobile melta guns most... If not deep striking, not sure I'd survive TO assault if the lads are deployed far enough apart... Not sure a Mech based force would survive long against most well constructed IG lists... FNP works wonders against the las guns and such, but I see a lot of Melta/Plasma out there...

Mephiston, FT player so I don't actually use him, but you should never see just him... An assault squad with a medic for the FNP and to dig him out from being bogged down by a blob... Honestly, someone coming through with a drive by from a Melta squad should work if he isn't really well hidden..

'course, just my opinion, I could easily be wrong...

Jaon wrote:As a Guard Player, How would you deal with the following units:

Swarm Lord.

Plasma CCS/PCS with the BiD order works just fine. Ensure that you have a back-up unit availble to chip off the last wound should your plasma fall short.

Jaon wrote:Zoanthropes.

This is slightly trickier. Due to their invulnerable save its quite pointless hosing them with plasma/melta as the low AP of these weapons is wasted. I'd be much more inclined to shoot them with mult-lasers/autocannons as the high S ensures wounds which in turn will test their save. The issue with Zoans is that they are regularly spodded in, and so always get the option to lance a tank prior to you retaliating.

Jaon wrote:
Trygon.

Mawloc.

See Swarmlord. Mass plasma with BiD trashes these MCs, particularly as it is much harder for them to benefit from cover.

Jaon wrote:Hoard of 30 assault marines with FNP.

Battle cannons work wonders here. The High S and low AP denys them their FNP, and with the squad size being as large as it is, even a scatter should ensure you hit something.

Jaon wrote:Assault Terminators.

Another slightly tricky one. Demolisher cannons are good as it bypasses their 2+. Plasma is also useful for the same reason. the key is to junk their transport as early as possible and get them walking across the board. If your not toting any of the above then simply try to throw as many wounds on them as possible and hope they fail that 2+. High S, high AP weapons are prevelant in Guard armies so you shouldn't be too hard-pressed finding any.

Jaon wrote:Eldar Skimmers (Hydra are good, but its hard to get your hands on hydra)

Hydras are your best bet. S7, twin-linked and denying them one of their biggest advantages in the 'Flat Out' cover save. Hydras are good against pretty much everything in the game, but they tear Eldar in particularly a new one.

Jaon wrote:Mephiston.

A lack of invlunerable save is the one thing that really hurts Mephiston. As such, I'd deal with him much the same way as I deal with Mawlocs/Trygons. Rapid-firing plasma brings him to his knees; just be sure to use FoMT to force him to re-roll those cover saves.

Hope this helps.

L. Wrex

Greatly helpful guys, you bring hope to those who have none.

For me,its simple.

Veterans,Ride chimera,go close,shoot.
If it too hard to kill one veteran special weapon volley,then use tanks. I like Manticore. They are good. Can instakill most multi-wounds models. Not bad against marines. Good for kill vehicles.

depending on what points your playing i wouldrecommend using yarrick with a squad of vetrans in a chimera and anything else you wanna field . demolishers good at taking out space marines in large groups hope this helped

For Zoanthropes, the Grey Knights I have with Psycannons work wonders. . . That and Vendettas with Heavy Bolter Sponsons. Yeah, the LasCannons could be shooting at things without 3++, but once the MCs are handled (or far enough away), Zoanthropes pose a greater threat.

Vets with Plasmas and an Executioner cover most of the rest of this list.

No experience with Mephiston, though.

Assault termies are vulnerable to massed small arms fire. Every 6 wounds done will kill a termie on average. Things like scatter lasers also fit the bill too.

Plasma/melta are not as good vs termies as they still get the 3++, so the RoI is not as good.

willydstyle wrote:20 man blobs don't last that long against a unit with that many attacks. You can maybe tarpit him long enough to back mephiston up with an assault squad... but you need a bigger blob if you want it to be more reliable.

He only has 4 attacks, thats pretty much 3 turns min for a 21 wound commieblob. Unless, like you say, he gets backup. For me, 3 turns is worth it to keep that beast at bay.

Shoot them. A lot. With AP2 weapons.

I am no Guard player, but a squadron of 3 Vendettas can handle all of that, and is mobile enough to stay away and survive.

murdog wrote:

willydstyle wrote:20 man blobs don't last that long against a unit with that many attacks. You can maybe tarpit him long enough to back mephiston up with an assault squad... but you need a bigger blob if you want it to be more reliable.

He only has 4 attacks, thats pretty much 3 turns min for a 21 wound commieblob. Unless, like you say, he gets backup. For me, 3 turns is worth it to keep that beast at bay.

5 attacks counting the bonus for two weapons. And IIRC he can give himself preferred enemy every turn. While he's in there, your blob's guns aren't shooting at rhinos, dreadnoughts, or storm ravens, so mephiston just has to wait for an assault squad or blood talon dread, and then he gets to fight what he wants again.

Yeah, but blobs don't put out a lot of firepower, generally speaking, so there isn't THAT much waste.

Plus, 3 turns is a pretty serious underestimate for how long a blob will last. Unless, as mentioned, he needs to get bailed out by his friends (which means they're not doing something else), you should expect to keep mephiston tied up for the rest of the game once he gets tarpitted.

As such, going for the tar pit is a points-effective way of handling mephiston. Of course, so is plasma spam, but if you don't want to kill him outright for whatever reason, then he is definitely boggable.

willydstyle wrote:

murdog wrote:

willydstyle wrote:20 man blobs don't last that long against a unit with that many attacks. You can maybe tarpit him long enough to back mephiston up with an assault squad... but you need a bigger blob if you want it to be more reliable.

He only has 4 attacks, thats pretty much 3 turns min for a 21 wound commieblob. Unless, like you say, he gets backup. For me, 3 turns is worth it to keep that beast at bay.

5 attacks counting the bonus for two weapons. And IIRC he can give himself preferred enemy every turn. While he's in there, your blob's guns aren't shooting at rhinos, dreadnoughts, or storm ravens, so mephiston just has to wait for an assault squad or blood talon dread, and then he gets to fight what he wants again.

You mean assuming the blob doesn't kill Mephiston, right? My blob sgts/commie always have power weapons, should cause a couple wounds per turn, and even regular attacks get through once in a while. And even if he lives, with only four attacks, that blob should easily last 5 or more turns, thanks to LD 9, stubborn and rerolls.