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Which of the following Options would you prefer and why:

Option A: Vindicator with Extra Armor & Double Autocannon Dreadnought with Extra Armor

Option B: Devastators with 4x Missile, Double Autocannon Dreadnought no Extra Armor, one Tac Squad SGT drops Melta Bombs

The rest of the list has two 10 marine Tac Squads with Las/Melta/Combi-Melta/Powerfist, two 5 marine Tac Squads with Powerswords, Predator with las sponsons, Thunderfire Cannon, 3 MM ABs, 3 HB ABs, 2 Typhoons, and a Librarian.

The Vindicator gives you a large, high AP blast and the EA on the dread helps keep him mobile and hidden when he takes a stunned result. It also helps keep him alive when he does get assaulted (which happens rarely). Option B adds 4 missile launchers to an already shooty army with alot of AP2 as it is and helps immensely against hordes from range.

I like the vindicator better than the tac squad + the devastators

I'd go with option b.

Mostly because of the fact that a single vindi won't probably survive to fight back, if you want them you take more than one.

The dev squad is more likely to survive to fight back, and you need the extra range.

The dred with no EA is ok, but does it have two tl ac?

Yup. Double TL auto cannons. Its quickly become a staple. I usually have my lone Vindicator survive for a long time simply because most opponents don't think of one as a threat until it does something cool.

Well, I'd definitely go with option b.

The rest of the list has two 10 marine Tac Squads with Las/Melta/Combi-Melta/Powerfist, two 5 marine Tac Squads with Powerswords, Predator with las sponsons, Thunderfire Cannon, 3 MM ABs, 3 HB ABs, 2 Typhoons, and a Librarian.

You didn't ask, but I'd drop those 5 man Tacticals and add a Sternguard unit with combi-meltas.

2 more typhoons will give you more durable/mobile firepower than either the vindicator or the devs.

Option B, but swap the Devs for 2 Typhoons. cheaper and more guns to boot.

2 typhoons is 180 pts for 4 Missile launchers and 2 HBs.

10 Devestators with 4 Missiles is 230 pts.

you save 50 pts and gain 2 HBs.

like Infernus said, more mobile firepower.

Grey Templar wrote:Option B, but swap the Devs for 2 Typhoons. cheaper and more guns to boot.

2 typhoons is 180 pts for 4 Missile launchers and 2 HBs.

10 Devestators with 4 Missiles is 230 pts.

you save 50 pts and gain 2 HBs.

like Infernus said, more mobile firepower.

Please read the whole post before responding. 1) I have maxed out my FA slots already so I can't swap the Devs for Typhoons and 2) I only have the points for a 5 man Dev squad so the Typhoons are actually more expensive in this case. I love the two Typhoons currently in my list, but its not worth it to me to add a second squadron at the cost of either of my AB squadrons.

if it's just a 5 man squad then just do 1 more typhoon to the existing squadron.

Grey Templar wrote:if it's just a 5 man squad then just do 1 more typhoon to the existing squadron.

Workable, but it has the huge opportuntiy cost of not being able to engage a different target. The Devs and Typhoons as is can shoot 4 krak missiles each at 2 seperate targets. Adding a Typhoon instead would make it 6 missiles at one target.

True.

this is one reason i don't like bikes. they take up Speeder room.

Grey Templar wrote:True.

this is one reason i don't like bikes. they take up Speeder room.

Pfft, it's the other way around

PanzerLeader wrote:Option A: Vindicator with Extra Armor & Double Autocannon Dreadnought with Extra Armor

270 points unless I am mistaken, and you could save 30 points by dropping the pointless EA. I am sure you have a reason, but I would bet it isn't a reason worth 30 points.

Option B: Devastators with 4x Missile, Double Autocannon Dreadnought no Extra Armor, one Tac Squad SGT drops Melta Bombs

370 points. I am not even sure I understand why you are comparing these two options. I would recommend taking two barebones Vindicators (there is a pretty substantial thread covering why two are better than one) along with a double-AC Dreadnought with no EA. That should be 15 points less than option B.), while giving you two mean tanks and a cheap shooty-dread. Sure, you need to trade out one of your HS slots, but it still makes a lot of sense.

The rest of the list has two 10 marine Tac Squads with Las/Melta/Combi-Melta/Powerfist, two 5 marine Tac Squads with Powerswords, Predator with las sponsons, Thunderfire Cannon, 3 MM ABs, 3 HB ABs, 2 Typhoons, and a Librarian.

Are you using transports? The list looks like it is mainly shooty and footslogging, backed up by one tank, a bunch of ABs, and Landspeeders. You need more tanks, at least from where I stand. Those two 5-man PW tac squads confuse me, TBH. Do they do very much? I can't see both of those squads being worth the points, how do you use them?

The Vindicator gives you a large, high AP blast and the EA on the dread helps keep him mobile and hidden when he takes a stunned result. It also helps keep him alive when he does get assaulted (which happens rarely).

Take two Vindicators and add some rhinos with your spare points, at least if you aren't using transports as it is. Spending 15 points on EA because once in a blue moon someone assaults you, or you actually have some sort of chance to hobble behind a building for cover... doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Neither the Vindicator or the Dread will benefit much from EA, thirty points can easily be spent better elsewhere.

EA (Spirit stones) make sense on Wave serpents because they are cheap, and most units being transported really need that transport moving for as long as possible. A moving Vindie or Dread with no ability to shoot, is funny, and not a great way to spend your points. Seriously, a TL-AC Dread running around w/o guns... why spend more on a unit that is probably done it's job by that point? Shaking is all you need against shooty units, you can't stop it, and it is easy enough to get loads of glancing hits anyway. Keep them cheap.

Option B adds 4 missile launchers to an already shooty army with alot of AP2 as it is and helps immensely against hordes from range.

Meh. Devs cost too much and are not particularly hard to deal with. AV13 tanks are nasty, even if there are a few weapons that can deal with them as well, there are certainly fewer of those weapons. 4 S4/AP6 small templates are not particularly scary to much of anything, especially when they are no less than completely stationary. Vindies move and fire large barrage templates with AP2. Sure having a bit of extra range is nice, but those Devs are just waiting to get locked in assault, losing the ability to fire for the rest of the game. The same things that can take Devs out of play instantly, can't do much of anything to a Vindie, and are likely very vulnerable to large templates.

Devs will do a good deal more against transports (AV10-12), but the Vindie is just better all around.

Wrexasaur wrote:
270 points unless I am mistaken, and you could save 30 points by dropping the pointless EA. I am sure you have a reason, but I would bet it isn't a reason worth 30 points.

370 points. I am not even sure I understand why you are comparing these two options. I would recommend taking two barebones Vindicators (there is a pretty substantial thread covering why two are better than one) along with a double-AC Dreadnought with no EA. That should be 15 points less than option B.), while giving you two mean tanks and a cheap shooty-dread. Sure, you need to trade out one of your HS slots, but it still makes a lot of sense.

The extra armor got added because I was sitting at 1970. Option B comes out to 270. Its only a 5-man Dev squad.

Wrexasaur wrote:Are you using transports? The list looks like it is mainly shooty and footslogging, backed up by one tank, a bunch of ABs, and Landspeeders. You need more tanks, at least from where I stand. Those two 5-man PW tac squads confuse me, TBH. Do they do very much? I can't see both of those squads being worth the points, how do you use them?

Sorry, all the Tac Squads have Las/Twin-plas razorbacks. So the 5 man power weapon squads are mobile and I use them to take objectives and they are remarkably competent at throwing GEQs off of objectives. I also run them in tandem with the combat squad from the 10 man in a Razorback so I'm basically rushing 10 marines with a power weapon, powerfist, and melta gun at a target.

Wrexasaur wrote:
Meh. Devs cost too much and are not particularly hard to deal with. AV13 tanks are nasty, even if there are a few weapons that can deal with them as well, there are certainly fewer of those weapons. 4 S4/AP6 small templates are not particularly scary to much of anything, especially when they are no less than completely stationary. Vindies move and fire large barrage templates with AP2. Sure having a bit of extra range is nice, but those Devs are just waiting to get locked in assault, losing the ability to fire for the rest of the game. The same things that can take Devs out of play instantly, can't do much of anything to a Vindie, and are likely very vulnerable to large templates.

Devs will do a good deal more against transports (AV10-12), but the Vindie is just better all around.

Those are some good points in favor of the Vindi. I generally favor range and speed over all other things and the Vindies generally play a little slow for me. In fact, the Vindicator is usually my least effective HS choice. The Predator and the Thunderfire almost always outperform it. My Marine army has a deceptive ability to play like an Eldar force against slower armies, allowing me to spread the table and quickly collapse at a chosen point of attack while isolating a portion of the enemy's army in a place where it can't effect the battle significantly. I find that multiple S4 blasts are usually beneficial through sheer wound saturation against the right targets just like a large blast works against deep strikers. Which of the other HS choices would you sacrifice for the second Vindicator?

vindicator vindicator vindicator. they can do you alot better than stupd devestators. technicaly, (with EXTREAM luck) 4 las gun shots can drop your guys. vindicators are the way to go