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Ok, so while going through my Tau, I discovered that I have over 5000pts of Tau, and enough to make 2 decent sized armies. A friend is willing to trade me all of his Dark Eldar for some of my Tau. He is getting me a list of what he has in the near future.

My question is units are good, and which units should I stay away from? Basicly I want to make sure I don't trade a bunch of stuff to him and still have to drop a few hundred on Dark Eldar to make it playable. Of course I realize that if a new codex ever comes out this all could change.

Thanks in advance

Stay away from

Mandrakes
Warp Beasts
Grotesques
Hellions
Scourges

I think it is safe to say that all of the se units are universally regarded as subpar.

Units that are ok

Talos
Reaver Jetbikes

They can work but to field a Talos you are not fielding a Ravager. Ravagers are awesome. Reavers are very expensive - I personally do not use them but there are others that do.

Thanks. I knew Grotesques were bad since the change in 4th ed. Did not know about the others. Will take your advice as well as any others.

Check out Thor's DE tactica. He put a lot of effort into it and explains each unit well. It helped me a lot when I got back into DE for 5th. I hadn't played them since 3rd edition.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica

Your cheque is in the mail, Vrakk.

Overall the quick breakdown is best summed up as this with the idea of building somewhere in the 1500-2000 range;

Raiders - at *least* 6 for competitive builds
Ravagers - 3 in competitive builds
Wyches - you'll probably want at least 12 with two Succubi models and 4 Blaster models amongst them
HQs - you can go a couple of ways here, you'll probably want at least a DE Lord and if you can get a couple Haemonculi that would be nice as well.
Warriors - for most competitive lists you'll need a pile of these guys, pay special attention to those armed with special weapons. Blasters, Splinter Cannons, and Dark Lances will all be useful.
Incubi - get 5 if you may want to try them.
Reaver Jetbikes - get at least three, two with Blasters on them and you'll have all you'll ever need unless you really like jetbikes

Everything else is pretty much meh or for modding purposes (Scourges can help equip warrior squads for example, and with the right paint scheme Grotesques can become Wyches)

I'll also caution that we are (theoretically possibly perhaps) getting a revised codex in October - so be aware that the rules are about to shift on what is best for DE and also that there will be a lot of new plastic coming out for them as well.

Thanks guys, I will look over Thor's article.

Here is what i will be getting:


1x Asdrubael Vect kit with Raider (assembled raider not the kit)
1x Forgeworld flyer
6x Raiders (3x primed, all assembled)
1x Drazhar, Master of Blades special character
1Urien Rakarth, Master Haemonculus special character
[1x converted Decapitator, Mandrake Champion special character]
3x Talos (1x painted, 1x partially painted, 1x partially assembled) [Heavy Support choice]
8x Scourges (4x splinter cannons, 4x splinter rifles, 1x extra jump pack) [Fast Attack choice]
4x Helions (unassembled) [Fast Attack choice]
6x Reaver jetbikes (4x regular, 2x special weapons) [Fast Attack choice]
5x Warpbeasts with Beastmaster [Elites choice]
10x Wyches (8x close combat weapons, 2x blaster special weapons) [Elites choice]
10x Mandrakes [Elites choice]
10x Grotesques [Elites choice]
2x Haemonculus [HQ choice]
2x Lords (1x Archon, 1x Dracon) [HQ choice]
10x Incubi Retinue (8x close combat weapons, 2x special weapons-shredders)

4x Squad sgts
4x shredder models
2x blaster models
4x dark lances
7x splinter cannons -assembled
5x splinter cannon bits
63x trooper models ( 20-ish unassembled)

I will be giving him about $650 worth of stuff that I do not need. While not everything here is great, I think it is a good enough list until the new codex comes out. I don't plan on playing them in tournaments anytime soon.

The Helions and Jetbikes I dont mind as I actually like the models, even if they are not worth the points.

i would argue that mandrakes are still good if you know how to use them. personally when i field them (always in2000 points, but then i dont have two wych squads, so meh.) they generally do well for me about50% of the time. the other 50% it's my own rolling that screws me over. lol.

Hellions and scourges are by far the worst units in the codex. Warp beasts can be very effective in WWP armies, although those in general are hard to play, and even then they die quickly and probably need help in the assault.

Talos and grots can also be good, but grots need help in the assault to live up to their potential, while witht alos you need 2-3 to make them effective, elsewise the lone MC in your army gets shot to pieces.

Personally i think Mandrakes are more points effective than reavers, but that's just me

Mandrakes and Reavers serve two totally different functions. That's like pointing out that a 30 man Ork mob is more points effective then 3 deffkoptas...well, yeah, maybe, but they're fulfilling totally different roles and totally different force org slots so how do you compare them?

The proper dquestion is Mandrakes vs. Wyches. Both are assault/distraction/tarpit units from the Elite slot.

The closest comparison to RJBs I can think of is probably a mini sniper Raider squad and even then it's hard to say. RJBs are like tank hunting Warp Beasts. They can do solid damage, can't take hits very well, and are relatively cheap to field in the hopes it distracts your opponent. (they also serve as escort to jetbike riding HQs, and can be made into a formidable h2h unit though it costs more then Wyches and is more fragile so it's usually not worth it)

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:i would argue that mandrakes are still good if you know how to use them. personally when i field them (always in2000 points, but then i dont have two wych squads, so meh.) they generally do well for me about50% of the time. the other 50% it's my own rolling that screws me over. lol.

How are mandrakes still good? Against mech armies that are moving forward the drakes can't even scratch the paint on vehicles. Against a foot slogging hoarde army the drakes will be over whelmed. Against a gunline army they'll never get there. IIRC the mandrakes must setup in your deployment zone. On pitched battle that is on the 12 inch line. They can only move 6 inches a turn and must show on the 3rd turn - so at best they are 30 inches in with fleet and assault of +1 to 7 inches. So as long as the gun line doesn't deploy at the edge of their deployment zone (and what good commander would do that) the drakes will have to survive a round of shooting before attacking. Granted you can hide them in cover but what can they kill if they survive shooting? Str 3 non-power weapon attacks are not scary.

If you've only done number crunching and theory, yea, mandrakes suck. In actual games though, they present a problem to the opponent in that by turn three he will have a unit either very close, or stuck in to additionaly deal with. This is a unit that can pop out at any point during any phase of your turn, and is useful for more than just trying and failing to krump stuff

The most often use i put to mandrakes is to move and then fleet to surround a transport before i blow it. Oh, you can't disembark? sorry bro, this is a tourny...
No, I don't do that during friendly games, that would be just rude.

I never play against static gunline armies and they would quickly fall foul of the rest of my army, forcing them to move to compensate, and considering i have 3 mandrake tokens, i can move them to within range of at least one.

Get them into cover and you have terminator saves on 10 models, good luck to him trying to blast you out without ordinance or flamers. and if a template gets close enough to fry you, you have an assault. Mandrakes are more flexible than wyches in that it's a cheaper, larger squad (factoring in cost of upgrades, succubi, and raider) that is guaranteed to survive for 3 rounds, has better out of combat saves, and just as many attacks on the charge. So you don't get drugs / WW, You still get an inordinate ammount of attacks, I5, and the ability to assault with impunity.

Assaulting heavy weapons teams, dev squads, or even just terminators (i have done this succesfully) to slow them down are all easily within the squads limits.
So i would suggest you try them out before you say so condescendingly that they aren't all that good... it's like saying night shields aren't worth it, all they do are 6" .. which is total bull and everyone who has used them knows it ;D

Personally, I wouldn't do it. DE are supposed to be getting an update soon, so I'd stay away from those old models at all costs. I'm sure the other person just wants to get rid of them ASAP, and he'll take whatever he can get

Although really, 5000 points of tau is extensive, so If you really want to play DE, go for it.

Well, like I said I don't need any of the models I am gettign rid of. As far as new scultps go, 9 time sout of 10 I prefer the older models.

The other guy does not have to get rid of them. He just does not like them. Figures if someone will use them then let them have at it.

I wouldn't play down the new sculpts so quickly! I haven't seen any pictures, but supposedly they're very good, although i am a fan of how a lot of our stuff looks right now.

So we wait...

I have tried the Mandrakes and they stink. I remember playing with and against them in 3rd ed and they were great. With the different deployment zones they could reliably get to where you wanted them. Now, they just beg to get shot up. 30 str 3 non-power wpn attacks on the charge fail to impress me - when for 27 pts more I can have a raider and 6 wyches, 2 with blastes, all with wyche wpns, and one as a Succubus with an agonizer. And the whole squad has plasma grenades. In my experience, the Wyches are a much better purchase for an elite slot.

technically its 40, if you dont fleet, which frequently you dont need, what with pistol shots. and beg to be shot up? they cant be shot until you deploy them, and get a 5+ cover in the open. thats better than wyches, where half the squaddies to an exploding raider, a big possibility. I'm not arguing that they are better than wyches. not even more cost effective. just that they are still a completely viable option for people to take.

I myself would love to take 2 squads of wyches but i don't have another raider to justify it. right now i have 4 (buying a 5th this week) and that gives me one HQ raider, a wych raider, and 2(3) troop raiders. I fill in the 2nd elites slot with mandrakes, and do not worry too much about it because mandrakes are not bad. they aren't as good as wyches sure, but they arent an awful alternative. they just have a learning curve on them

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:mandrakes are not bad

They're not good either though. Right? Right? ::waits for high five that never comes: awwww...

I think we're getting off topic from the poster's original question. If either of you want to start a topic in tactics about how good are/aren't Mandrakes I'd be happy to join in a debate. I think probably what we've shown here is that there are a few units that are not generally agreed upon to be optimal. As Mandrakes fall into that category they probably shouldn't rank as high as Raiders, Warriors, and Wyches in the OPs quest to get a competitive DE army. If he gets his friend's selection he'll have some Mandrakes to try for himself and he can gauge his own feelings on them.

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:I wouldn't play down the new sculpts so quickly! I haven't seen any pictures, but supposedly they're very good, although i am a fan of how a lot of our stuff looks right now.

So we wait...

I really wouldn't want to be trading for a bunch of DE stuff with a wave of new DE releases coming in november. I like the way the DE play but seriously dislike the current range of models. If looking at the last couple years of new releases is any indication (for the most part) then the new sculpts should be pretty good.

I'd try and sell your tau on ebay or here in the dakka swap shop and set the money aside to make a big purchase in november.

OK, I never once asked if the models looked good enough, or should I wait until November. I asked which units are good, to make sure I did not get half of the models that I can not use. I even mentioned that a new codex was possible and would change units up a bit.

Thanks to Thor and a few others, I got my answers.

Closed at OP request