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What is an area of affect for this?

for example, if a power affects only friendly enemy models, but not the sisters who may be within range of the power, do they get a chance to 5+ negate it?

Basically what is an area of effect?

It affects the model/unit itself and nothing else. If a farseer casts Doom on an inducted IG Squad, they have no options. If it's cast on a Sororita Squad, they get the 5+ chance to negate it.
Jaws of the World Wolf is weird because its cast on the first unit in LoS, but continues on to other units in the 24" range. So if it hits a Guard Squad first then hits a Sisters unit and they make the 5+...did the entire shot get negated (saving the Guard) or does it stop at the point the sisters negated it. Or does it go model by model with each Sororita model having to make a 5+ individually?
The joys of a 3rd edition army in a 5th edition world.

The rules on Shield of Faith are quite clear. The power itself is negated (like a psychic hood would negate it) if the 5+ save is passed. JotWW is therefore simply negated, so don't clip any AS when you fire it off.

This does affect friendly powers that might include the AS as well.

Hmm.. .but this still doesn't answer my question.

Let me rephrase

In 40k what counts as an "area of effect?"

Sheild of saguiness says "any unit with in 6 inches"
Nullzone is similiar

Are these areas of effect?

Does it affect the sisters? If yes, they are in the AoE. If no, they are not in the AoE.

Does it effect an area or a specific model/unit?

Blast = area.
Units within x" = area.
draw a line = area.

Target unit within range = no area.

frgsinwntr wrote:In 40k what counts as an "area of effect?"

It's not a term specifically defined for 40K, so you would go by the usual meaning.

So a unit is inside the power's area of effect if it is affected by the power.

Sheild of saguiness says "any unit with in 6 inches"
Nullzone is similiar

Are these areas of effect?

Yes. If the Sisters are within that distance, they are within the power's area of effect. So the power can be negated.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Does it affect the sisters? If yes, they are in the AoE. If no, they are not in the AoE.

By this logic, then if a stereotypical smell gamer person has no sense of smell, they aren't in the area of effect of their own filthy stench... where everyone else within 6 feet can smell them and they are in the area of effect?? But not the source?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:In 40k what counts as an "area of effect?"

It's not a term specifically defined for 40K, so you would go by the usual meaning.

So a unit is inside the power's area of effect if it is affected by the power.

Sheild of saguiness says "any unit with in 6 inches"
Nullzone is similiar

Are these areas of effect?

Yes. If the Sisters are within that distance, they are within the power's area of effect. So the power can be negated.

This is originally how I thought it, but I've heard otherwise. I've encountred masterslowpokes argument and I'll be honest... I am struggling to understand it

As insaniak has pointed out unfortunately GW does not provide much guidance for the term AoE, other games such as Warmachine does. You could go to one extreme and say it affects any psychic power that overlaps or the other and simply say it just protects the unit of Battle Sisters. Without a good definition from GW it's really hard to say.

G

The definition of area of effect has no bearing on whether or not it only protects the sisters.

If the power targets the sisters, or includes them in its area of effect, it is nullified on a successful roll.

If the power is nullified, that stops it working on any other units that are also in the area of effect.


However (to return to the question asked at the start o the thread) enemy powers that only affect enemy units will not be nulllified, as per this response from the FAQ:

GW wrote:Q. Can persistent Psychic abilities (such as
Psychic Scream or Veil of Tears) be nullified by
the Penitent or the Shield of Faith?
A. No, as they are not being used on the Penitent
or including him in their area of effect – they are
being used on other models.

So the power has to actually be something that affects the Sisters for them to get the roll.

insaniak wrote:The definition of area of effect has no bearing on whether or not it only protects the sisters.

If the power targets the sisters, or includes them in its area of effect, it is nullified on a successful roll.

If the power is nullified, that stops it working on any other units that are also in the area of effect.


However (to return to the question asked at the start o the thread) enemy powers that only affect enemy units will not be nulllified, as per this response from the FAQ:

GW wrote:Q. Can persistent Psychic abilities (such as
Psychic Scream or Veil of Tears) be nullified by
the Penitent or the Shield of Faith?
A. No, as they are not being used on the Penitent
or including him in their area of effect – they are
being used on other models.

So the power has to actually be something that affects the Sisters for them to get the roll.

Good find! I didn't catch that! Thread can be locked

insaniak wrote:However (to return to the question asked at the start o the thread) enemy powers that only affect enemy units will not be nulllified, as per this response from the FAQ:

GW wrote:Q. Can persistent Psychic abilities (such as
Psychic Scream or Veil of Tears) be nullified by
the Penitent or the Shield of Faith?
A. No, as they are not being used on the Penitent
or including him in their area of effect – they are
being used on other models.

So the power has to actually be something that affects the Sisters for them to get the roll.

Which once again shows that GW has no idea what they're doing... VoT makes the enemy roll dice and lose their chance to fire if too short, I'd say that's a textbook example of affecting them.

The answer here is not to nullifying a power, it is to using the power. Both these are passive powers, which means they are not being used, the key being used, and therefore cannot be nullified.

Example: I cast Null Zone and I am 12" away from a SoB squad. No problem, AS models are not in its area of effect, I then move within 6" of an AS unit, Null Zone does not now get nullified. It is 'persistent' at this point until the end of the turn.

Spetulhu wrote:Which once again shows that GW has no idea what they're doing... VoT makes the enemy roll dice and lose their chance to fire if too short, I'd say that's a textbook example of affecting them.

Yes and No. I think that what they were going for is the idea that Shield of Faith kicks in when the power is originally case, rather than allowing you to nullify ongoing or passive powers.

VoT is never actually cast... it's just there. So SoF never gets the opportunity to negate it.

insaniak wrote:

GW wrote:Q. Can persistent Psychic abilities (such as
Psychic Scream or Veil of Tears) be nullified by
the Penitent or the Shield of Faith?
A. No, as they are not being used on the Penitent
or including him in their area of effect – they are
being used on other models.

So the power has to actually be something that affects the Sisters for them to get the roll.

Errr. . .

Isn't that rather problematic with the new Psychic Scream--it is blatantly AoE that would be affecting everyone yet the FAQ specifically includes it.

Or am I reading this incorrectly?

As far as the FAQ answer goes it seems to be saying that no matter the position of 'the Penitent' on the board he is never considered to be in an area that global effects include.
As strange as that sounds.
Non-targetting means non-triggering.

kirsanth wrote:draw a line = area.

A line has no width therefore no area. Area = Length x Width

Lt Lathrop wrote:

kirsanth wrote:draw a line = area.

A line has no width therefore no area. Area = Length x Width

A line per the mathematical definition has no area, however, you're drawing a line. The line that you've drawn might represent a mathematical line, however, the actual drawn representation itself has to have width, thus it has area.

The only way the FAQ includes the new psychic scream is if it is a persistent ability. Since it is not, this must refer to some other ability because it specifically states this ability is persistent.

The FAQ does not state that for the Penitent or SoF. It states that PERSISTENT or PASSIVE abilities that are classed as psychic powers cannot be nullified. Only abilities that are 'cast' can be nullified, as per a psychich hood.

daedalus wrote:

Lt Lathrop wrote:

kirsanth wrote:draw a line = area.

A line has no width therefore no area. Area = Length x Width

A line per the mathematical definition has no area, however, you're drawing a line. The line that you've drawn might represent a mathematical line, however, the actual drawn representation itself has to have width, thus it has area.

Touche