Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well first, I'm not a complete newbie, I had 2,000 pts of guard but they got boring and I needed a little money so I sold them. Now I'm looking back into the game and I came up with this Space Marine list.

Devastator Squad.....90
Heavy Bolter............15
Heavy Bolter............15
Lascannon...............35
Multi-Melta.............15
Squad Total.............170

Predator Tank................60
Twin-Linked Lascannons....45
Sponson Lascannon.........60
Extra Armor................15
Squad Total...............180

5 Man Assault Squad.....100
Sergeant Power Weapon...15
Melta Bombs.......................5
Squad Total.............120

5 Man Assault Squad.....100
Sergeant Power Weapon...15
Melta Bombs.............5
Squad Total.............120

Captain.................100
Artificer Armor.........15
Hellfire rounds.........10
Power Sword.............15
Grenade Launcher........15
Squad Total.............155

Tactical Marine Squad...170
Plasma Gun..............10
Sergeant Power Sword....15
Heavy Bolter............free
Squad Total.............195

Tactical Marine Squad...170
Plasma Gun..............10
Sergeant Power Sword....15
Missile Launcher........free
Squad Total.............195

Scout Squad.............75
Snipers.................free
Camo Cloaks.............15
Squad Total.............90

Scout Squad.............75
Snipers.................free
Camo Cloaks.............15
Squad Total.............90

Drop Pod................35
Deathwind Missiles......20
Squad Total.............55

Dreadnaught (in drop pod)....105
Heavy Flamer............10
Extra Armor.............15
Squad Total.............130

TOTAL POINTS............1500

The aim of this list is to be a versatile army with a bit more emphasis on shootiness. The assault squads are mostly meant for tying up other squads in combat and meltabombing tanks.

I know that it's probably pretty bad, as it is only the first copy, but I need input as to what to tweak.

Hellooooo? Can someone please help out here?

hmmm, well first off I guess I'll cover the basics. Most people don't like dev squads because they are inefficient point sinks. On top of that people really dislike mixed devsquads as it tends to mean you wasted points everytime you shoot at a tank because some of your heavy weapons can't hurt it. So reflect on that.

Nothing wrong with assault squads and MB. Good for counter assaults and taking out vehicles that didn't move the turn before (auto hit with the MB).

Generally a libby is par for the course when taking only one HQ, unless you are taking a special hero to get their advatange over the combat tactics rule or doing a dread list (requires MotF obviously).

Something to start thinking about.

ok... first of all, when your posting an army list, try to stick to this format -

<force org slot>: <unit name> (<unit options>) in <unit transport> (<transport options>) - <points value>

with the order of force org slots listed as :

HQ
Elite
Troop
Fast
Heavy

makes it MUCH MUCH easier to read. Here's your list, re-formatted.


HQ: Captain (artificer armor, Hellfire rounds, Grenade Launcher, Power sword) - 155 pts

Elite: Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer, Multimelta, Extra Armor) in drop pod (deathwind launcher) - 185 pts

Troops: 10 man tac squad (plasma gun, heavy bolter, power sword on sarge) - 195 pts
Troops: 10 man tac squad (plasma gun, missile launcher, power sword on sarge) - 195 pts
Troops: 5 man scout squad (5x snipers, camo cloaks) - 90 pts
Troops: 5 man scout squad (5x snipers, camo cloaks) - 90 pts

Fast: 5 man assault squad (power sword and melta bombs on sarge) - 120 pts
Fast: 5 man assault squad (power sword and melta bombs on sarge) - 120 pts

Heavy: Devastator squad (2x HB, MM, LC) - 170 pts
Heavy: Predator (Twin Linked Lascannon, Las sponsons, extra armor) - 180 pts



now... problems with this. Your tac squads both need rhinos. Tac squads without rhinos are dead, and will never do well for you. Heavy bolters on tac squads are also not so great, missile launchers are much more cost-effective, and are generally a better choice. Scout squads are pretty much a waste of points, you'd be much better off with a 3rd tac squad. Assault squads need flamers... their primary purpose is anti-light infantry, so flamers really suit them. Your Heavy choices are REALLY just bad. The predator doesn't need a twin linked lascannon or extra armor... it costs 60 points more than it should here. Also, your devastator squad is confused and over-costed. You'd be better off replacing the dev squad with a predator packing an autocannon and 2x lascannons... dropping the other predator to the same configuration, and using the 110 points you saved from this to buy a THIRD predator with the same configuration... gives you 6 lascannons and 3 autocannons for the same points, while what you have now gives you 4 lascannons, 2 heavy bolters, and a multimelta. The 3 pred config is much better. For your HQ... I'd seriously recommend getting a jump librarian to go with your assault squads. Being able to put the librarian where he's most needed is always great, and the codex SM has awesome powers to choose from.

Drop the captain, as well... captains are useless in this edition unless your using a biker list. He's over-costed for what he does, which isn't much. he barely hits harder than a normal sergeant.

Another thing to think about is dropping the camo cloaks, getting a tech priest and using his special ability to give the ruins that your scouts setup in a better cover save (3+) basically exactly what the camo cloaks would do but allows you to get a nice independent character for a little more points. Since your sniper scouts shouldn't move until its time to capture an objective at the very end there is no difference between sitting in the fortified ruins and having the cloaks. I love a tech-marine with a full harness. Very useful and only 75 pts.

Well I figure that I have enough AI, so how about this:

Drop:2x heavy bolter, Pred extra armor, Captain. (-185 points)

Add: 1x Plasma Cannon, 1x Lascannon, Librarian w/Termi Armor, Smite and Force Dome. (+185 points)

It exactly evens out. Good thing I haven't bought anything yet.

EDIT: I started writing this at the first reply, so I havent seen the other ones yet... I'll make another post soon with an overall tweakage.

I wouldn't write Dev teams off as a point sink. They can be utilized pretty well if you go for redundancy. Don't take every different weapon, just go for 5 of the same thing. I personally use rocket launchers in my dev teams (actually havocs,same thing ).

Don't bother with maxed las-preds. I've found they quite often get blown to shreds. You might as well take a land raider for 60 more points.

Assault squads look good.

Captain is a little random. Hellfire rounds are a bit much, and I had no idea he could take a grenade launcher
I'd take a chaplain, but I have a thing for chaplains, you might not

Tactical squad is Wtf. Why take a rocket laucher? You'll never be able to fire it!

Drop pod is wtf. The only thing you have to put in it is the tactical squad.

Dreadnought in drop pod is useless for this army.

Honestly, just start over and build your way up from HQ>troops>Heavy support>elites>fast attack

That's the way I build my armies. For IG, I usually build up from the troops choices though.

Don't put upgrades on everything. If you waste points on upgrades for bad units, you'll ending up paying dearly when you lose them.

Put resources into usable troops choices and an effective HQ first, then do minmum extra stuff and any extra points you have left over can be put into those extra things.

You're putting way too much stuff on crappy options, like the dreadnought, and the scout sqauds, the captain and the predator. When you lose those units, you're left with very little to help you back up.

Good luck

OK, here my fully revised list based on everyones suggestions.

HQ: Librarian (Termi Armor, Smite, Force Dome) - 125

Elite: Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer, Multimelta, Extra Armor) in drop pod (deathwind launcher) - 185 pts

Troops: 10 man tac squad (plasma gun, Missile Launcher, power sword on sarge) - 195 pts
Troops: 10 man tac squad (plasma gun, missile launcher, power sword on sarge) - 195 pts
Troops: 10 man tac squad (plasma gun, missile launcher, power sword on sarge) - 195 pts

Fast: 5 man assault squad (power sword, flamer, and melta bombs/combat shield on sarge) - 130 pts
Fast: 5 man assault squad (power sword, flamer, and melta bombs on sarge) - 130 pts

Heavy: Predator (Autocannon, Las sponsons, Extra Armor)-120 pts
Heavy: Predator (Autocannon, Las sponsons)-120 pts
Heavy: Predator (Autocannon, Las sponsons)-120 pts

This is my revision, I took the advice on the preds and it definitely looks better. I got the flamer on the assault squads, and the combat shield is because I had 5 pts that I couldnt find anything else for. Let's see how this one does.

EDIT: also, to samus, they have ML's because they are the ones being used to hold objectives in objective games, where a launcher will be good. Without the scouts I have nothing to hold objectives besides them and besides that, the ML is FREE! so it's not that much of a waste of points even if it's not used.

probably the best your going to do at your points level, without getting rhinos for your tac squads.

your main problem is going to be armor14 vehicles, like land raiders. Hopefully your dreadnought will be able to deal with them... if not, hopefully you can immobilize it with predator lascannon shots, then hit it with a melta bomb from an assault squad.

I dunno, In my experience I don't see many land raiders below 2000 pt games, and even if there are, I've seen someone run the tankbombing assault guys. They just devastate any tank generally, especially since (I think) they hit back armor, which only really the land raider will be a problem with.

Ok...ok...let an old time Marine take this,

1) Dev squad drop hvy bolters for las-cannons, multi-melta is good.

2)Predator is nice drop the ex armor, not needed.

3)Drop Pod...yah everyone is on the kick drop pod....not my bag....yuo dun have termies.

4) Dreadnought...think big and get x2 las and missile launcher thats the deal it works to support your entire army.

5) I like your list and would be honored to face it any time you would like to....dont gte down by others telling you not to do what you wanna do....Do it, mean it and kill.....killl. A Chaos proverb

The deathwind launcher on the drop pod is a little meh, you might consider putting the points to buy it towards something else.

Well str 5 large blast isn't that bad and even though it only has 12" I'll be dropping close to enemies (hopefully)

Yeah but its fairly likely you will only get to use it once or twice and for the 20 points you might get more mileage out of a different upgrade. And if the dread you drop gets popped in the next enemy shooting turn they will just avoid its small 12 inch range. You might also think about dropping some of your upgrades and putting them toward extra units, land speeders are pretty cheap and i find them fairly useful personally. If you're going to use the melta bomb assault squads to try to pop tanks taking a pf over a pw would probably give you a better chance of downing most vehicles.

The problem was that any other upgrades are either useless for this kind of army or 25+points, so this was what I found.

Also the assault squads will be attacking and tying up enemy squads mostly, and are mostly to pop tanks when other AT gets destroyed.

rhinos and Razorbacks are pretty darn good. Except this coming from a Tank Marines Player ^.^