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after reading a number of threads in various places... there is alot of Chaos will be the last one standing going on...

this in my books is highly unlikely for a number of reasons,

A) the very nature of chaos means that it isn't unified. so even if it was to spill out and consume the galaxy it would still be fighting itself....

B) if chaos 1 chaos god was to achieve dominance, chaos fails to be chaos and it negates its own existence possibly even causing a paradox in which it never actually existed.

C) if the necrons or tyranids get to much of a foothold chaos itself is reduced because of the huge diminishment of sentient life (in both cases) and in the necrons case their apparent ability to dampen warp energy, remember the Cadian Gate only exists because of the Necron monuments.

anyone else got thoughts on this?

Chaos is just a name given to a rouge element, they could have been called The Fluffy Bunnies and they would still be the same thing.

it may not win, but it will always exist. in false gods from the Horus heresy novels (i think) a nurgle infected admiral explains Horus what chaos was.(sort of) Chaos has been developing since apes were braining each other and humans were clubbing each others with stones. Chaos will never stop to exist. and if they conquered the whole galaxy, or killed all human and xenos life in the galaxy(The Purge Legion) they would fight each other, yes. but the chaos gods are wise enough to not fight each other, an thus they will always exist. in place of themselves, the gods would send their followers, or CSM to do their bidding. and if even al of their followers are dead and stop to exist, they will send their demon legions. the demon legions will never die because they are immortal. And thus, so shall Chaos rule if they succeed in their plans of conquest or extermination. I could imagine Tzeentch would lose much of its power because Tzeentch is the only of the 5 gods(there are 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(Warhammer)) who does not has an end plan. he just keeps plotting.

Do read the link I provided. there is a lot of info on chaos both in the WHFB and 40k setting, including lesser gods.

Does any of the fluff suggest that the existence of the warp itself is reliant on sentients? Even if that were so, beings associated with chaos would probably continue to try to exterminate everyone, because the Ruinous Powers are portrayed as being as self-destructive as they are destructive.

yes. the demon legions would fight each other mostly within the warp as that is their "home"

I agree that it is unlikely Chaos will ever win.

I don't think any side in Warhammer 40k can every truly 'win.' There is too much going on, with too many different enemies to fight, for any one side to gain enough of an advantage.

However, I do think that Chaos is hampered by it's 'box full of crabs' mentality. Chaos does fight itself, and the Chaos gods do oppose one another. It isn't called Chaos just because it was an ominous sounding name. They really do embody all the aspects of entropy. Including their nature to turn on one another.

I think the last ones would be Necrons and Tyranids.
Necrons kill people for the C'tan could be able to eat their souls, and rule the galaxy again wich is, in fact, theirs. Necrons and C'tan are the opposite of Chaos, and they can use their technology and mastery on dimensions to contain it. In fact, they have a plan for containing the Warp (seek for that on the Internet).
Tyranids live for devouring organic stuff, so they can survive. They have the Hive Min, but they're not as related to the Warp as other species do.
So, if Necrons and Tyranids are nearly invincible (Ncrons don't die and Tyranids are born using enemy's and their own corpses biomass), then the Warp will be contained by Necrons, all living species will die, and their souls and corpses will be eaten by C'tan and Tyranids.
To sum up, the galaxy will be blank. Great.

IronChaos wrote:I think the last ones would be Necrons and Tyranids.
Necrons kill people for the C'tan could be able to eat their souls, and rule the galaxy again wich is, in fact, theirs. Necrons and C'tan are the opposite of Chaos, and they can use their technology and mastery on dimensions to contain it. In fact, they have a plan for containing the Warp (seek for that on the Internet).
Tyranids live for devouring organic stuff, so they can survive. They have the Hive Min, but they're not as related to the Warp as other species do.
So, if Necrons and Tyranids are nearly invincible (Ncrons don't die and Tyranids are born using enemy's and their own corpses biomass), then the Warp will be contained by Necrons, all living species will die, and their souls and corpses will be eaten by C'tan and Tyranids.
To sum up, the galaxy will be blank. Great.

What about when there is no more biomass for the Tyranids to consume?

What happens when theer are no more souls for the C'tan to consume?

And by the way, why does everyone forget about the Dark Eldar? They have Commoragh, nothing else can reach them! When everything else is dead, or severely weakened, then the Dark Eldar strike!

I was also under the impression that chaos depended on sentient life to survive.

even further that really only eldar and humans gave them power

Well if Chaos were to completely over-run the material world, and enslave all sentient races that affected them, to keep themselves alive. Using the sentient races as a kind of powerhouse, Chaos could potentially still be in existence, making humans fight eachother in gladiatorial battles to fuel khorne, torturing and inflicting as many sensations possible to fuel slaanesh, not to mention that through all this, no doubt that the races would be feeling despair and hope, which would fuel nurgle.
So they can win, kind of, but they definitely could never wipe out all sentient life.

Technicly Orks already won the war. At least in their eyes. They are born with the desire to fight and die fighting..and they do. Theyr goal is for everyone to be fighting, and if someone hangs back and chooses not to, it turns into japan and pearl harbor. Orks main goal is done. the only other thing i can think of is killing all humans..wich they despise greatly. Comissar yarrick is the only one who has gained respect from orks, yet they still hate his guts

As said before. At the end game chaos doesnt want to win. A constant state of war would be much much better. As it is now its about perfect. Plenty of war for all the chaos gods to have there fun with.

Exor wrote:

IronChaos wrote:I think the last ones would be Necrons and Tyranids.
Necrons kill people for the C'tan could be able to eat their souls, and rule the galaxy again wich is, in fact, theirs. Necrons and C'tan are the opposite of Chaos, and they can use their technology and mastery on dimensions to contain it. In fact, they have a plan for containing the Warp (seek for that on the Internet).
Tyranids live for devouring organic stuff, so they can survive. They have the Hive Min, but they're not as related to the Warp as other species do.
So, if Necrons and Tyranids are nearly invincible (Ncrons don't die and Tyranids are born using enemy's and their own corpses biomass), then the Warp will be contained by Necrons, all living species will die, and their souls and corpses will be eaten by C'tan and Tyranids.
To sum up, the galaxy will be blank. Great.

What about when there is no more biomass for the Tyranids to consume?

What happens when theer are no more souls for the C'tan to consume?

And by the way, why does everyone forget about the Dark Eldar? They have Commoragh, nothing else can reach them! When everything else is dead, or severely weakened, then the Dark Eldar strike!

When there's no more biomass to consume, Tyranids move to the next galaxy, as they probably did before.

When there are no more souls to consume, C'tan and Necrons return to their stasis tombs, and wait for millions of years until new intelligent species appear.

And about Dark Eldar, yes, you're right, they can hide... but as soon as they strike, they are obliverated by Necrons and Tyranids.

That's my opinion.

I think all in all the Necrons would win. Look at this possibity...

The Tyrainds are reaching the other side of the galaxey and made landfall on a planet with the last signs of life in the Galaxey, but there seem to also be Necrons on the planet...

Tyraind thinking: MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH, Robot thing NO MUNCH, MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH, Leave Planet, Next Galaxey, MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH

Necron thinking: Die infidels, ZAP, walks over with C'ten, Hmmm... seems as if they have no soul, well it's bed time, ZZZZ

IronChaos wrote:

When there's no more biomass to consume, Tyranids move to the next galaxy, as they probably did before.

When there are no more souls to consume, C'tan and Necrons return to their stasis tombs, and wait for millions of years until new intelligent species appear.

And about Dark Eldar, yes, you're right, they can hide... but as soon as they strike, they are obliverated by Necrons and Tyranids.

That's my opinion.

But the Nids Will Have Left The Galaxy... Ergo They Cannot Obliterate Any Dark Eldar Raiding Parties...

The Necrons Are In Their Stasis Tombs. As They Are In Stasis, They Will Presumably Be Too Slow To React To Any Suprise Assualts. Also, If The Nids Have Consumed All Biomass, This Leaves No Room For Evolution, As Every Planet Is Essentialy A Lifeless Shell. This Means That The Necrons Would Either Have To Leave The Galaxy Too, Or Wait For Dark Eldar Raiding Parties... Don't Forget, They Will Weakened, Or At Least Their Masters Will Be, Thus Reducing Their Chances Of Surviving An Assualt...

It All Boils Down To The Dark Eldar Conquering All!

Nice annolagy?

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Nice annolagy?

Complete With Ever Word Being Capitalized.

Exor wrote: Also, If The Nids Have Consumed All Biomass, This Leaves No Room For Evolution

I disagree with this statement. Just because all planets are lifeless doesn't mean life would not continue to evolve. For example Earth was at one point a lifeless ball and it's been postulated that the amino acids that began life here rode in on comets. That is all far above my education level, my point simply is if you left a galaxy with no life and came back to it a couple hundred million years later you'd probably find all sorts of life again.

Klawz wrote:

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Nice annolagy?

Complete With Ever Word Being Capitalized.

Sorry, force of habit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattosika wrote:

Exor wrote: Also, If The Nids Have Consumed All Biomass, This Leaves No Room For Evolution

I disagree with this statement. Just because all planets are lifeless doesn't mean life would not continue to evolve. For example Earth was at one point a lifeless ball and it's been postulated that the amino acids that began life here rode in on comets. That is all far above my education level, my point simply is if you left a galaxy with no life and came back to it a couple hundred million years later you'd probably find all sorts of life again.

IIRC, Nids consume everything, even at a cellular level. But as you say, a comet could indeed stimulate life. Nonetheless, the Necrons would still have to return to stasis leaving ample oppurtunity for the Dark Eldar to lay waste to them (although i'm unsure why they would, they don't exactly gain anything from raiding Necrons)

Dark Eldar stave off the the predations of slannesh by by giving her the souls of others in their place. If their are no souls to give then they fight each other and then die.

Sorry unless GW does a major fluff overhaul the DE don't really matter to the overall universe. They can be as mean and scary as they want but they have neither the numbers nor the desire to to make a big difference. all they do is show up, take some slaves, and leave. Big whoop.


And also if the chaos gods have no worshipers they effectively die. Or at least they are reduced to an idea floating around in the warp. Which also means no daemons.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Dark Eldar stave off the the predations of slannesh by by giving her the souls of others in their place. If their are no souls to give then they fight each other and then die.

That's not exactly true... Their soul essence is slowly leeched by Slaanesh. They consume the souls of others to replenish this...
That doesn't change the fact that they would suffer a sizeable population decrease, but i do believe that their numbers would still be substantial...

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:
Sorry unless GW does a major fluff overhaul the DE don't really matter to the overall universe. They can be as mean and scary as they want but they have neither the numbers nor the desire to to make a big difference. all they do is show up, take some slaves, and leave. Big whoop.

I got this off Lexicanum, so it's validity is questionnable, but it is evidence nonetheless:

"the infinitely large expanse of space makes it the perfect place for a city the size of Commorragh. No single planet would be capable of supporting the sheer size of the Dark Eldar people"

This seems to negate the theory that their population is small... as for the rest... i can't argue. They do indeed lack the desire to make a big difference outside of their own species. And overall, they are not major players in the universe like the Imperium.

I am also rather let down by GWs portrayal of them. Whilst it is fine for the majority of them to be slave raiding, it would be nice if once in a while they did something else or something that had consequences for the rest of the galaxy...

My Theory is This:
1. Nids Eat Everything- except for Chaos (Eye of Terror), Dark Eldar (Comorragh), Necrons (Underground)
2. Dark Eldar start to raid once Tyranid Battleforces move on.
3. Chaos Emerge- do the same
4. Some randomly surviving Humans (outer worlds?) take back Terra.
5. Other races appear. Necrons come around again.
6.'Bigger Fish' scenario: The thing 'Nids were running from appears.

I like this thread.

Although I have heard from around and about that all these tyranids are just advanced scouts and that there is more in the other world, much bigger, much stronger, but that isn't very important info, necrons are still totally invunerable, so yeah, cillet nid, bang and intellectual life is gone.

Although in white dwarf it said that the warp represents intellectual life so the warp is a void that represents the thoughts of humans (and zenos) so the humans dominating force is lust, anger, fear which is more dominating than love, calm, and happiness, so the only form of life that is linked to the warp, the c'tan, nids, are mostly hunger thoughted so nurgle will be the only large threat, but he is trapped in the warp, also there is a possibility that chaos has an influence other worlds.

I do study philosophical and religious psychology, but just read the white dwarf article and a moron could work it out

Grignard wrote:Does any of the fluff suggest that the existence of the warp itself is reliant on sentients? Even if that were so, beings associated with chaos would probably continue to try to exterminate everyone, because the Ruinous Powers are portrayed as being as self-destructive as they are destructive.

It's a reflection of sentient beings imprint on itself. The denizens in return affect the material realm in return. The negative elements of the warp are what we see most as they have an active interest in the material realm. Not all warp beings are this way though.

To them, in theory, we are like slobbering beasts as we think them.
It is a place where the psychological and physical swap, so in theory the daemons are a figment of our imagination, and thats why it is said that the sinful are the only ones who are victim of demon possessions and physical assault from demons in Christianity.
Also we are a figment of their imagination.
So if the warp is weakened, we are weakened and vise versa.





P,S,

So the little fish, big shark scenario will fall the world into chaos and therefore chaos will strengthen, so therefore the universe will fall into more chaos, so chaos will,..

You get the idea.

Anyone ever read Hellsing?

Well basically, they're just in it for the hell of it. They're there to kill and be killed. They don't care who's doing the dying, so long as it's happening.

The Chaos Gods are made of pure emotion, they have no logic, they simply exist to do. Even Tzeentch's plots have no logic, they're plans for the sake of making plans. It's simple emotion who's only meaning is defined by its very existance. They simply do, they never think. They're not sentient beings in any sense.

Chaos is all, and all is Chaos. In the fory-first millenium, there is only War. And Chaos.

There cannot' be just chaos, well in the real world, but in 40k, if chaos wins it will just kill us or any zenos it finds and brings us back to life again, and then find new ways to kill us again and again like great boss tuska the daemon killa an' is' lads.
Even if chaos does win it cannot truely win, one hundred percent can never never be known to exist, because there might be anything out there, the matrix scenario (an old pre-existance theorists term) could be true and we could be computer generated by some advanced computer so advanced that it can imitate life, or maybe the computer is not very advanced and life is just part of the computer system we are part of some greater form of engineering.


I got a little carried away.