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My friend and I are still fuzzy about this sort of thing. OK, say there's a nob squad of 8. 3 nobs have 1 wound, and they are all equipped differently. Now in CC with a daemon prince, they are dealt 4 wounds. Do these wounds have to be assigned to the hurt nobs first, or can you still assign them as you choose since their equipment is varied?

Similarly, if a group of 5 CSM (who are equipped differently) take wounds in the shooting phase from 12 bolter shots, 2 plasma rounds, and 1 lascannon shot, can you:
a) assign both plasma rounds to the same marine, since they aren't instant-death-rounds even though the AP2 isn't savable by the CSM?
b) assign all plasma and lascannon shots onto the same marine, and spread the other 12 bolter shots to the remaining 4?

I hope my examples provide clear enough pictures of what we're struggling with. Thanks in advance.

You assign wounds per model but roll saves per group. In your instance with the Nobz, you can avoid assigning a wound to one of the 3 previously wounded Nobz by assigning them to the remaining 5 Nobz and if they're equipped differently then you can give each Nob one wound each. The rule about multiple Wound models dying before another model takes a wound only applies to groups of models that are exactly the same.

Concerning your example with the CSM, if all 5 models are equiped differently you have to assign each model 3 hits as there are a total of 15 hits. How you assign them is up to you. You could technically assign the 2 Plasma and the 1 lascannon hit to one guy, and the remaining 4 would have to roll 3 bolter saves each. Instant death wounds really only become an issue if you have models with multiple wounds in a group with like models. For example, a Tyranid warrior squad with all like models shot with the same weapons. You would resolve the Lascannon first as it causes instant death. The remaining 4 models would then have to take the 12 bolter round saves and the 2 plasma, and since the models are all the same, you have to remove whole models before applying a wound to an unwounded model.

Hope that helps.

You have to allocate 1 wound to each model before placing a 2nd on any of the other models. So you could go lascannon on 1, bolter on 2, 3, 4, and 5, plasma on 1, bolter 2345, plasma 1, bolter...etcetc. This allows you to "protect" the squad by allocating the particularly horrible weapons to the same marine. However, it gets sorta cheesy if you do this to excess and your opponent won't appreciate it.

You resolve fire squad by squad, as they happen. So if all that fire the CSM soaked came from one squad, or one tank... you can allocate it however you want. The only time you would have to allocate the "instant death lascannon first" is if it came from a squad firing a lascannon... before the other shots hit.

The main thing to remember is:

1) Allocate wounding hits to models as evenly as possible
2) Group models, and the wounding hits o nthem, into groups of IDENTICAL models - identical in game terms, e.g. all bolter marines in a unit. You end up with a "pool" of wounds that each group has assigned - they are no longer assigned to an individual (unless it is a group of 1, of course)
3) Take any saves *within* the group of like models, converting wounding hits into wounds.
4) Remove wounds from *within* the group of like models

As for people "not liking it" - it follows the advice given in the BRB. Nobs take it to the extreme by allowing each model to be individual, and exploit this further by each having two wounds. As the "remove unwounded models first when ID occurs" rule applies only WITHIN that group, so if you have a lot of 1 wound left nobs, all unique, you CAN place the ID wound on a wounded nob.

To further the question about CC work assessment.

Let's say I have 3 poor unfortunate space marines & Dante in CC with a Blood Thirster. The Thirster deals 6 wounds to them. After putting on wound on each would I be able to place the last two wounds on the soon to be dead space marines? Or would they have to go to Dante cause the space marines would be dead cause of the Thirster's PW.

You assign wounding hits as stated.

You assign 1 wound to each marine and Dante. This leaves 2 wounds, which you can again assign to the marines and none to Dante.

NExt, step 2 you group all like models and their assigned wounds together, giving you 3 marines and 5 wounding hits, and Dante with his single wounding hit.

As the marines have no saves, they are dead from the Monstrous Creature (The BT does NOT have a pwoer weapon!) ignoring armour saves. The 2 "extra" assigned wounds in that pool are ignored / lost, as wounds never go outside their group.

Dante gets to make a save and, assuming he doesnt have EW, is dead if he fails it due to S8/9 Blood Thirster.

nosferatu1001 wrote: (The BT does NOT have a pwoer weapon!)

Well that's a bit of new information.

Thanks =D.

Lt Lathrop wrote:
You resolve fire squad by squad, as they happen. So if all that fire the CSM soaked came from one squad, or one tank... you can allocate it however you want. The only time you would have to allocate the "instant death lascannon first" is if it came from a squad firing a lascannon... before the other shots hit.

Thanks for the replies guys, that was tremendously helpful.

I didn't realize this was the case, Lt Lathrop. I thought all shots in the shooting phase happen simultaneously, and if one squad got hammered by a bunch of different shooting squads, you could pool up the all the wounds after the firing was over and save them all at once. So it's up to the attacker then to pick the order in which the squads shoot? You still have to declare all shooting targets before shooting right?

Bizmo wrote:So it's up to the attacker then to pick the order in which the squads shoot? You still have to declare all shooting targets before shooting right?

Yes the attacker chooses the order in which he shoots. Shooting is declared on a squad by squad basis, not all at once. So, you can wait and see if your tac squad wipes out those nobs before having your predator shoot at them also.

Shovan - note that while the BT doesnt have a power weapon, monstrous creatures deny saves in close combat regardless of what they are armed with - its worth having a reread of the monstrous creature rules.

Bitzmo - all shooting froma single UNIT is simultaneous (so you cant use meltas to blow up a transport then use the same squads bolters to shoot the squad inside, even if you could target two units...) however the shooting phase is sequential - you resolve one units attacks, then the next, and so on. Declaring al shooting and targets at the start of the phase was 2nd ed, if memory serves.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You assign wounding hits as stated.

You assign 1 wound to each marine and Dante. This leaves 2 wounds, which you can again assign to the marines and none to Dante.

NExt, step 2 you group all like models and their assigned wounds together, giving you 3 marines and 5 wounding hits, and Dante with his single wounding hit.

As the marines have no saves, they are dead from the Monstrous Creature (The BT does NOT have a pwoer weapon!) ignoring armour saves. The 2 "extra" assigned wounds in that pool are ignored / lost, as wounds never go outside their group.

Dante gets to make a save and, assuming he doesnt have EW, is dead if he fails it due to S8/9 Blood Thirster.

Note: This would all be correct if Dante were an upgrade character, however he is an IC.

Concerning the BT and his attacks. He actually has to assign how many attacks he's going to apply to both Dante and the Marine Unit and treat them as 2 seperate units for the purpose of the hit/wound/save resolutions. Since Dante is an IC, there is no wound sharing among the two groups. If he assigns 4 attacks to Dante, 2 to the marines and manages to wound all 6 attacks, then Dante would have 4 saves to make and the Marines would have 2.

okay let me clarify:

You've not given me numbers, so I'll make my own

Two plasma shots, 1 cannon, 14 bolter shots.

You CAN:
Assign up to two wounds per unit.

YOU CAN'T
assign more then two.

So, you can loose one CSM to two plas guns, 1 lascannon and 1 bolter to another, and spread the rest evenly.

that's how I've been taught to do it.

hamsterwheel - oops, forgot he was an IC. What I said would hold for any single, uniquely equipped non-ic though.

WHen it coems to ICs hamster is correct - the BT has to decide, BEFORE rolling anything, how many attacks are going on each unit (assuming Dante is in base to base as is a member of the marine squad) and wounds cannot transfer between this split.

Captain Solon wrote:okay let me clarify:

You've not given me numbers, so I'll make my own

Two plasma shots, 1 cannon, 14 bolter shots.

You CAN:
Assign up to two wounds per unit.

YOU CAN'T
assign more then two.

So, you can loose one CSM to two plas guns, 1 lascannon and 1 bolter to another, and spread the rest evenly.

that's how I've been taught to do it.

Completely wrong. There is no min-max number of wounds you can assign to a model.
Your example isn't complete because we don't know how many models the opponent is shooting into. If it's less than 8 models, one of your targets would have 3 wounds assigned to it.

If the target unit consists of 7 identical tac marines, 1 missile launcher, 1 lascannon, and 1 sergeant then this is how it is played out:

17 shots total, 10 targets. You have to assign one wound to each model, and then there are 7 wounds remaining so 7 of the models would then receive 2 wounds. The controlling player then assigns the wounds. Since you would like to keep the sergeant and special weapons alive, you would probably assign the cannon, 2 plasmas and 11 bolters into the 7 identical non special weapon marines. This would leave you one standard save each to make for the missile launcher, lascannon and sergeant, which would all be rolled seperately. The remaining 14 saves into the 7 identical marines would all have to be rolled together since they're exactly the same. The 2 plasma assuming no cover is an automatic 2 wounds, leaving you 1 cannon and 11 bolters to save at a 3+. Any failed roll will mean the loss of additional marines (in other words, with like models, you cannot stack wounds).

Wounds are spread evenly among the number of models as best as possible. So no model may take 3 wounds until every model has been assigned 2 wounds. How they are assigned is determined by the player rolling the saves unless under special circumstances. Saves are rolled per each group of identical models(same model/same wargear). This is why there is an advantage to having a mixed unit of models such as the Nobz squads, because it allows you to assign most if not all of the deadly(AP2) weapons onto a single model, rather than loosing multiple models.

Captain Solon - you dont appear to have been taught correctly.

Assuming all are equipped individually, then each mdoel is its own group for determining how wounds are removed. As such any "excess" wounds would be lost, e.g.:

2 plasma, 1 melta, 12 bolter shots all wound 5 differently equipped marines (giving 15 wounding hits)

1) allocate all wounds evenly - so 3 on each model. You can alocate any type of wound you want onto any of these models, you dont have to spread Ap2 wounds around, etc.

So you can choose to have the 2 plasma and the melta shot on one CSM, 3 bolter on marine 2, 3 on marine 3 etc.

2) Collect all models and wounds into groups of identical models. This is easy as each model is unique, meaning groups of 1, and therefore the initial allocation stays.

3) Take saves. Assuming no cover, marine 1 (who took the melta AND plasma shots) is dead - but the excess wounds CANNOT be passed onto anyone else

4) Each marine 2-5 individually takes saves frmo the bolter shots. Again, if e.g. marine 3 fails 3 saves you only take marine 3 away, wounds are not transferred.

Captain Solon wrote:okay let me clarify:
that's how I've been taught to do it, the wrong way. Read the BGB for clarification.

Fixed it for you.

I think Capt has the right idea, he just screwed up the math in the 5 marine example and assumed it was 2 wounds each instead of 3.

Nos, as usual, is correct in how to allocate. Remember, as always, wounds are rolled for as a GROUP of like equipped models even though they are assigned on a model basis.

Played a guy last week who rolled all his wounds and allocated to every model as if they were different - huge advantage - and had to correct him, he apparently won the previous weeks tourney too...

A simpler way to allocate wounds is to treat every different type of weapon as the equivelent of a different Initiative in CC.

for example:

squad of ten spaz marinz equipped with:
8 bolters (16 rapid fire)
2 plasma guns (4 rapid fire)

shooting at:
5 chaos spaz marinz

first roll to hit,wound& take armour save for one of the verietys of weapons (e.g bolters)
in a result you have already allocated all the wounds from the bolters (lets say two chaos marinz die)
after that you can then roll with the other weapons
allocating them and (possibly) kill the squad.

so it's like shooting with another squad
this way there won't be any sneeky 'only one guy takes the plasma shot plays.

Slick Psychic wrote:A simpler way to allocate wounds is to treat every different type of weapon as the equivelent of a different Initiative in CC.

for example:

squad of ten spaz marinz equipped with:
8 bolters (16 rapid fire)
2 plasma guns (4 rapid fire)

shooting at:
5 chaos spaz marinz

first roll to hit,wound& take armour save for one of the verietys of weapons (e.g bolters)
in a result you have already allocated all the wounds from the bolters (lets say two chaos marinz die)
after that you can then roll with the other weapons
allocating them and (possibly) kill the squad.

so it's like shooting with another squad
this way there won't be any sneeky 'only one guy takes the plasma shot plays.

Your suggestion would only work if the 5 chaos marines were identically equipped, otherwise you would be playing it wrong. The ability to stack unsaveable wounds onto a single target is one of the advantages of having seperately equipped units. If you suggested that I roll my saves after your bolters fires, then I would assume you were done shooting for that squad and you wouldn't get your plasma shots.