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Is it a limit on the effectiveness of tanks? BS 4 is fine, but I'm sure certain tanks would have really good targeting systems that would allow them to hit on BS 5.

I could imagine that's it's simply a way to keep tanks from being overpowered, but is there a real reason?

Do yo really want, say, vindicators to hit and wound on 2's? Really? Most ways to get a BS 5 on a tank is via upgrade character.

Because like hell am I going up against a Leman Russ division that scatters 2d6-5.

And I very much doubt my opponents want my Hammerheads hitting on 2s.

So yeah, it's a limit put in place? Or is it a natural representation of the usual tendency for vehicles to miss-fire....

Honestly, railguns almost seem worthy of BS 5.Such a freakin massively powerful weapon deserves to hit on a 2+.

I think its normally because the tanks are crewed by the equivalent to normal troops really. You wouldn't waste a Space Marine Captain firing tank guns when he could be out kicking ass on the front line.

It's balance.

Isn't there some space marine character that does give his tank BS 5..............

Balance is the reason.

You can purchase an upgrade character that will improve your tanks BS. However, it's now a higher priority target and you have fewer points to spend on troops and other vehicles to protect it.

balance and from a fluff stand point. Hitting on a 3 plus is actually extreamly acurate. I normal guardsman can shoot just about as good as a skilled soilder can. Hitting on 3s just doesnt seem all that great but since this is a D6 system thats how it works. If this were a d10 system accurace could be shown much better.

don_mondo wrote:Isn't there some space marine character that does give his tank BS 5..............

Yes; Antaro Chronus. he ignores Shaken, Stunned, and grants BS5

SaintHazard wrote:And I very much doubt my opponents want my Hammerheads hitting on 2s.

Oh but Hammerheads can hit on 2s, just hit the target with a markerlight first

CaptainHonkey wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:And I very much doubt my opponents want my Hammerheads hitting on 2s.

Oh but Hammerheads can hit on 2s, just hit the target with a markerlight first

Unless it's an MC or a tank bearing down on my troops, I probably won't waste a markerlight counter on a single shot from a Hammerhead. It'll go to my battlesuits and FW first.

And if the MC or tank isn't bearing down on my troops, it's not in markerlight range anyway.

I know, id rather use it for a Broadside team or Battlesuits.

I was just proving a point

CaptainHonkey wrote:I know, id rather use it for a Broadside team or Battlesuits.

I was just proving a point

Fair enough.

SaintHazard wrote:

CaptainHonkey wrote:I know, id rather use it for a Broadside team or Battlesuits.

I was just proving a point

Fair enough.

Or marker light a squad and use the small blast round.... Or am I thinking of a different Tau tank gun?

Cambak wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

CaptainHonkey wrote:I know, id rather use it for a Broadside team or Battlesuits.

I was just proving a point

Fair enough.

Or marker light a squad and use the small blast round.... Or am I thinking of a different Tau tank gun?

No, you're correct.

But think of it this way:

12 man FW squad vs Hammerhead railgun subordinance

Target is a 30-Boy Ork mob.

Large blast marker will cover maybe ten hits maximum, less if the player is running his Boyz properly, but let's go with ten. One less inch off of scatter isn't going to change much and it's still going to be fairly chaotic, you still may hit nothing at all.

On the other hand, the difference between firing with the FW squad at BS3 vs BS4...

24 shots.

BS3 = 12 hits
BS4 = 18 hits

12 shots.

BS3 = 6 hits
BS4 = 8 hits

And the FW pulse rifles are more likely to wound.

Personally I'd play the odds and give it to the fire warriors.

There's several vehicles with a base BS of 5. They're not very common because generally they would need to be crewed by commanders, where as most are crewed by normal troops. Your basic dudes aren't BS 5 either!

In no particular order, and probably not all of them:
Sammaels Landspeeder
Venerable Dreadnaughts
Bjorn the Fellhanded (BS 6!)

Ah yes. Bjorn. why does he even exist as an actual character? He's 10,000 years old and has only fought once in those long years. The likelyhood of actually using him is near impossible, he shouldn't even have a codex entry. but I digress. Bjorn is still cool as hell Besides, BS 6 is just for show. You still hit on a 2+.

Venerable dreadnoughts I can understand, since they're the best of the best in dreadnought form. That actually makes sense.

Personally I'm more bothered by the Armour values of tanks being capped at 14, particularly when it comes to superheavies. I'd much rather see some AV 15+ options then be stuck with the Land Raider being the best armoured vehicle in the Galaxy (including Titans and the like).

Jack

don_mondo wrote:Isn't there some space marine character that does give his tank BS 5..............

Yes, there is. For *whips out his codex* 70 points, you can make any vehicle BS 5 and immune to Crew Shaken and stunned. Put that on your Land Raider and watch you opponents cower in fear!
But seriously, 70 pts for BS5? It seems very extravagant. Probably because he is an Ultramarine. Yeah. I said it.

Jackmojo wrote:Personally I'm more bothered by the Armour values of tanks being capped at 14, particularly when it comes to superheavies. I'd much rather see some AV 15+ options then be stuck with the Land Raider being the best armoured vehicle in the Galaxy (including Titans and the like).

Jack

Well, in apoc, maybe. AV 14+ would be way too much for regular games though. Titans have another damage chart and structure points, warp fields and the like, so their hard enough to kill anyway. Anything above AV 14 would be ridiculously harder to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chowderhead13 wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Isn't there some space marine character that does give his tank BS 5..............

Yes, there is. For *whips out his codex* 70 points, you can make any vehicle BS 5 and immune to Crew Shaken and stunned. Put that on your Land Raider and watch you opponents cower in fear!
But seriously, 70 pts for BS5? It seems very extravagant. Probably because he is an Ultramarine. Yeah. I said it.

Well, actually, it's a combination of demonic possession and knight commander pask, which both total 70 points separately. I'd say it's pretty well priced, and on a land raider, it's well worth the points.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Besides, BS 6 is just for show. You still hit on a 2+.

Nope. You hit on a 2+, but if you miss, you get a second shot, and hit on a 6+. That's BS 6.

BS 7 = 2+ 5+
BS 8 = 2+ 4+
BS 9 = 2+ 3+
BS 10 = 2+ 2+

I agree that it is mainly for balance. Also, those are the army's basic troopers in there. However, it seems like some armies should have a vehicle upgrade option for better skill. Eldar come to mind. Call it 'Aspect Upgrade' or something, and now the vehicle is crewed by Dire avengers. It is not right for all armies. I don't really see it for marines though. Sorry to rain on the pipe dreams...

I agree that it is well priced, but here's my problem: HE HAS A SERVO ARM!!! Chronus has a servo arm, can't use it unless he is outside of a tank, is an independent character, and has normal stats! He should be allowed to take servitors. Also, he needs to stop pointing. NOW.

SaintHazard wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Besides, BS 6 is just for show. You still hit on a 2+.

Nope. You hit on a 2+, but if you miss, you get a second shot, and hit on a 6+. That's BS 6.

BS 7 = 2+ 5+
BS 8 = 2+ 4+
BS 9 = 2+ 3+
BS 10 = 2+ 2+

Oh, cool, I forgot about this! Omg, I wish something in my army had BS 10....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chowderhead13 wrote:I agree that it is well priced, but here's my problem: HE HAS A SERVO ARM!!! Chronus has a servo arm, can't use it unless he is outside of a tank, is an independent character, and has normal stats! He should be allowed to take servitors. Also, he needs to stop pointing. NOW.

He does? Nice. I don't play vanilla marines, but I always take pask on one of my leman russes (usually the vanilla russ). 70 points for the said effects is basically nothing for a land raider (which rarely gets destroyed anyway).