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I've been using a chaos dreadnought in the last couple games I've been playing (Plasma cannon and CCW) and I've gotta wonder why anyone doesn't use them! He very often got done what I wanted him to, with little or no fuss.

I had one close call though, and that was it. I had him next to a defiler, mowing down a unit of ork boyz and rolled "crazed". He fired his plasma cannon at my defiler (twice),but none of them Penetrated, luckily (It's not possible to penetrate AV13 with a plasma cannon anyway).

I do understand that in organized games, the risk isn't worth it, but with a little planning, it's quite easy to keep him in check if anything goes wrong. In another game, I had him next to a land raider as a buffer, which worked fine. So why don't people use them? Honestly, I'm considering making a mech list with three defilers, three dreads and some other stuff, I'm really impressed!

Well, Dreads with cc weapons are useful in an MC army,
with 2 DPs, 3 Dreads, and 3 Defilers.

Fire frenzy is horrible. You have been lucky so far but it just isn't worth it. Making 1 unit unreliable isn't that bad but destroying another potentially expensive unit is. They just are too bad at ruining your plan.

Having said that I do plan on using chaosd dreads, but they will have dual CCW so that they don't kill my own units.

It depends on the RAW, RAI, and RAP.

Basically, why am I paying for something that costs similarly to a loyalist Dread...yet it 'can' kill my own dudes and 'can' do something I completely don't want it to do.

Defilers are not AV 13.

It's still 100+ points that 1/3 of the time is doing something you do NOT what it to do. Some people like control...

It's a game of dice, you want to make things more certain, not uncertain if you understand what I mean .

Defilers have AV 12 not 13. Possible to penetrate and if your not careful, hit rear armor.

In my experience sometimes that 1/6 chance of it doing what you dont want it to do. A unit of blood crushers is about to charge my lines but the dread fire frenzys and now cant assault the crushers. Blood raging closer towards a MC is another example.

When I play my FW Dread (lascannon) then it does in the first round what it shouldn't do, shoot my units.
I hate him for this.

It's not to say it can't perform.
I've had decent to wonderful experiences with dreads.
My configs are as follows:

2 DCCW Dread.
DCCW/ML Dread.
Dread MM if I feel good.

They support the troopers so I don't really care if they Blood Frenzy...so it's only 1/6 they may not be doing what I want them to do. Annoying, but it's the cheapest AV we can throw into the CSM list that is not a rhino.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NOTE:
Please, please remember that people play the Crazed Rules differently.
There is the 360 degree crowd, 180 degree crowd and the 90 degree IIRC.

Sanctjud wrote:It depends on the RAW, RAI, and RAP.

Basically, why am I paying for something that costs similarly to a loyalist Dread...yet it 'can' kill my own dudes and 'can' do something I completely don't want it to do.

Defilers are not AV 13.

It's still 100+ points that 1/3 of the time is doing something you do NOT what it to do. Some people like control...

It's a game of dice, you want to make things more certain, not uncertain if you understand what I mean .

Oops. I know that, I just forgot without my codex in hard right now It still didn't pen, it rolled like threes.

Also, I think I might be the only person in the world who actually embraces chaos enough to love watching your own units massacred by one of their own. Even if the dread actually causes some harm, I think it's funny and I enjoy the challenge of having to deal with that. Chaos is a gamble

They are fun.
That's why some people hate them.



I've had a lot of fun with them, doesn't make me like them or use them more though.

I love my two Chaos Dreadnoughts. I prefer to run them with a plasma cannon and DCW. It is true they are as crazy as a house rat but I try to run them near some armor to mitigate Fire Frenzy especially with the damage to infantry that could come from plasma.

I must admit though that the GW Chaos Dreadnought model is as ugly as sin.

So I'm not the only one who loves exploding your own models? Cool.

I run them with 2 CDs, h flamer and extra armor, they work real well. My issue is with the whole 360 degree firing arch, how would you argue otherwise?

I don't understand what that means

I love them,reapers and ccw.I would love to bring my chaos army back up.

I was under the impresson that it would only turn and shoot what it could see. So if it had its back to something it couldnt turn and shoot it as it couldnt see it in the first place.

I love love dreads and it hurts that takeing them isnt worth it. Why should I have to pay the same cost as everyone else but mine has a terrible table i HAVE to role on. If it was cheaper or the table you rolled on could actually help you that would be great but that isnt the case.

Ether your shooty dread. A) fires twice into the back of your tanks of a unit or 2) it runs straight ahead of of cover then runs and is now in the middle of the field >.>.

Or your CC dread gets fire frenzy and wastes its turn shooting its bolters twice at nothing then has to stand there and do nothing.

But on a good not. I would bet all the money in the world. When the CSM get a new dex. That craze rule WILL be gone and we will also be getting a new model for it. We will get a kick ass model and the CSM dread will prolly be amazing as well.

SM got the riflemen dread. I am sure we will get the option for the same if not something better. Duel plasma cannons or something.

No, I doubt it. You might have the option to remove the crazed rule, but it'll always be there. Just read the fluff

We may get a new model, but something tells me no. Gw knows we hate chaos dreads. They have no real reason to invest in a plastic mold for those couple people who will buy it. They still want to sell FW dreads, and a plastic kit would cut their sales of the cheaper-to-make resin dreads.

I think even GW must know we hate chaos dreads BECAUSE of the crazed rule.

If the new codex got rid of that rule or fixed it so it wasn't pure suck, then people would buy chaos dreads! They don't gain anything by leaving a codex so there's a choice that people hate.

They make $$$ if chaos dreadnought becomes important.

True. It needs an advantage, not a disadvantage. The rest of the codex works that way....Sort of

The chaos dread has an advantage. In return for it's psychosis the chaos dread receives +1 attack to the base profile of a dread and it's 5 points cheaper. In previous editions the chaos dread was far superior to loyalist dreads back in the days when a blood rage result would make the chaos dread go Raaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr and double it's number of attacks. Not the mention the good old days of the power scourge, combined with old school blood rage ow that would put the blood talon furioso to shame in MEQ killing ability. The modern 5th ed chaos dread is pretty nerfed in comparison to it's former glory, but with 4 attacks as a CC dread it's still a decent unit for it's price.

The chaos dread with an extra CC weapon is 5 points cheaper than a codex marine dread with a MM, and has double the amount of CC attacks.

A chaos dread with an extra CC weapon does what you want it to 5/6 times because blood rage on a dread with 4 CC attacks is a good thing. Fire frenzy on a dread with 2 bolt guns is no big deal, it's not going to hurt your own side much if at all. The only real loss with fire frenzy on a CC dread is the loss of being able to move and charge with the dread for a turn.

The compare the chaos dread's 4 base attacks to the codex chapters 2 base attacks. A dread with 2 base attacks is good enough to charge a devestator/havoc squad, but will die to vanilla CSM with a power fist or a tactical squad with a power fist as it can squash a maximum of 2 MEQ a turn, and at average will squash 1. The chaos dread's 4 CC attacks (5 on the charge) makes it well capable of taking on MEQ squads with a power fist.

Chaoszilla still works, especially against CC armies. Multiple chaos dreads, defilers, and/or MC charging a single target is a deathstar attack.

A Dread with 2 CCWs is better than a loyalist dread with 1 CCW in melee combat?! Mind-blowing.

Then again, the one you were comparing it to has a 24" multi-melta that can instantly blow up your dreadnought at a range of 12".

yeah it CAN doesn't mean it always will and besides, if he gets blood rage he will get to the loyalist dred first. Ive had my CCW dreds take on (and one time blow up with) librarian furiosos which are much more expensive.

The 2 CC attacks is pretty laughable against MEQ. Even a 5 man squad with a power fist can risk going after it in CC. A lone loyalist dread is actually very vulnerable in CC.

iv always thought it was worth the risk, just keep them next to land raider, and keep your marines far away from him

Well, the answer of: Get a landeraider, is not very useful when the landraider is a questionable add itself.
__________

As for fire frenzy, you need to work out how it works, RAW is fudgy and how you resolve it is important.

I think land raiders are fine for a buffer, but I hate using that 'zerkeraider' tactic in the first place, which presents little need for a land raider on the field (other than for firepower, which I sometimes do).

I don't really think I'd want the dreadnought near the berserkers when they come out anyway.

On a semi-related topic, I made my mech chaos army. It's sort of a draft right now.

~HQ- Daemon Prince with wings and doombolt-140
~Elites- Chaos Dreadnought with plasma cannon 105
Chaos Dreadnought with Plasma Cannon 105
Chaos Dreadnought with Plasma Cannon 105
~Troops- 10 CSM, x2 flamer, Rhino, MOT - 235
10 CSM, x2 Melta, Rhino, MOT -245
~Fast attack- 5 Raptors, 2 meltas, 120
~Heavy support- Defiler with 1 extra CCW and reaper 150
Defiler with 2 extra CCW -150
Defiler with Reaper autocannon and 1 extra CCW -150

Total- 1495
Just some random ideas I've been meaning to use together I'm in a plasma-kind-of-mood and I wanted to try marks of Tzeetch, since I've yet to use them. The raptors were just a random addition. I had 125 points to spend, whatever I'll repost it on another thread.