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Hey All,

With the approaching release of the Isle of Blood with those hot new Elves and Skaven, I am slowly losing my resistance to getting into fantasy! I want to start both armies and I have a rough idea of what I want in the elves, but I am rather lost with the Skaven. I also want to point out that I am NOT a tourney player! I'd rather get a few people together and have fun for an afternoon.

So here are a few questions I have:

How cool is the Bell? I don't see it in many list, but the model is just too cool to pass up. What items work well with the bell and attached seer? What is necessary for him to have equipment wise?

Who should push the bell? Clan Rats or Stormvermin? And how many should I invest in?

What is the best way to run rat ogres? How many per unit and how many handlers?

I would like something along these lines starting at around 2000-2500 points then moving up to 3000:

Lord/Heroes:
Grey seer on Screaming Bell (again, not sure which items I should equip him with?)

Chieftain BSB again how should I equip him? Should I give him the Storm banner?

Other heroes? More Chieftains?

Core:
2x40 Slaves

2x30 Clan Rats with Full command

Stormvermin? If so how many?

Special:
I'd like to go with 2 units of Rat Ogres using the new models, but how many per unit?

Rare:
2xDoomwheels cause the models ROCK!!

I'd like to keep with the new plastics and advoid the old ones as much as possible. I love Seb's sculpting of these new rats and would like to keep that following through out the army.

So any rat advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

I personally love the bell.

For a couple of reasons. First off, its probably my favourite GW model in a long time, and despite its size, it is easy to assemble and paint.

For gaming reasons, it gives the grey seer 360" arc of sight, and extends his ld to 18", which is very important for the rats. Also, unlike the Plague Furnace, it can "reach out and touch" someone right from turn one. Admittedly, not all of the results will help immediately, but all but one of the results are good!

Another point is it is actually great defense for the seer. It gives him a 4+ ward save, 2+ magic save (thanks to the new MR rules!) and if you make sure there are no other characters in the unit, you can make sure he never gets challenged. since he can scamper to the top of the bell and still be useful!

my army for 2.5K is something like this :

Grey Seer on Bell. /w Staff of Sorecery and Skalm
Cheiftan /w Storm Banner
PLague Priest /w Warlock Enhanced Blade.
Warlock /w Brass orb. (no wizard level, just furry delivery system)

40 Clanrats /w HW SH, Standard + Music. Plague Mortar
40 Clanrats /w SP SH, Standard + Music. Plague Mortar
40 Clanrats /w SP SH, Standard + Music. Plague Mortar
20 Slaves
20 Stormvermin /w Full Command + Banner of the Under Empire.

20 Plaguemonks /w Full Command
10 Censer Bearers

1 Hellpit Abomination
1 Doomwheel

Now...i have about 200-300 points left to go for 2500...and I am humming and haaaing about either another HPA, or some Gutter Runners for warmachine hunting. dont know yet...I have to playtest them both to see what works best.

This army has done really well in the old edition, and so far looks even stronger for this edition...so let me know how it works out when you make your choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
in terms of your other questions, I totally agree with you in regards to the new models.

I have always wanted to do skaven, since the i love the whole "Secret of Nimh" on Crack aspect of them, but the models never did any justice to the line, mokey dog soldiers with worm tails no thank you. Now they actually look like rats, and i am happy.

Rat Ogre units should be 6 strong to be effective. You can have all their attacks, and they gain a rank.

Stormvermin I bring mainly because I like the models, and they 'used' to be able to get a 3+ sv....no longer however, so I may be retiring them..but s4 i4 rats aint bad to use. I am keeping them for the time being. 20+ min unit however. Always give them the under empire banner...2d6 s2 hits before combat starts absolutely rocks...the amount of giants and large monster that have died because I wound them before combat starts in awesome!

Thanks for the help! I greatly appreciate it. The first thing I need to do is get the Skaven army book so I can work out a list better.

With Rat Orges, how many pack master would I need? I am thinking about converting some of the Rat Ogres from the new box using either Killa Kanz or Deff Dread bits. I think I can make that work.

I wish I could make the skaven plague monks work from the furnace and convert them into plague monks because the old ones look like crap, IMHO.

How many Skaven clan rats should push the bell? I know that it should be 30+, but I am not sure how many would be the sweet spot between being useful and overkill.

If I have anymore questions, I will post them here and when I get the book I will try to post up a proper list and take things from there.

Oh, how do you like the doomwheel? I have heard mixed things about it, but again the model is so cool, that I want to go with 2!

In terms of the packmasters, at least 2...3 would be safest.

35-40 rats should push the bell...that will spare you attrition from doubles and triples, and still maintain combat effectiveness...however, with the new miscast table, you may need 40-50 since the templates will definately put a dent in you if you miscast.

Going with the Doomwheel, I think the model is brilliant, which would certainly make me wish to use it, but in terms of killing power, a HPA is far more deadly. The Doomwheel can only kill three models at most with its lightning, and its close combat is fairly lackluster. It can potentially have alot of attacks, but they are low strength. For a while before 8th ed came out, I was under the impression it would be getting thunderstomp, since it is technically a monster (?). But instead it is a unique type, and doesnt get it. With Thunderstomp it would have been totally badass.

You bring a Doomwheel when you know you will be fighting big multiwound beasties. A doomwheel will kill ANY big thing in one or two round of shooting. all you need to do is roll 4+ on that artillery dice for st, and you KNOW you have a good shot with three dice at wounding something, and as soon as that happens, you can get d6 wounds on it...wound twice, and its 2d6....so as you can see, bring it to kill that carnosaur, steggie etc...it is the skaven answer to Greater Daemons and so forth.

The bell imo suffered greatly in this edition...

With no more randoming war machine shots your grey seer is extremey vulnerable on that thing. A cannon shot has a pretty good chance of killing him outright, when before it would only random to him on a 6...

The one thing i do like about it though is it is scary against lore of life... Sure all your guys are T7 now, oh look i rolled an 11, they all take D3 wounds....

Also RaW if you roll an 8-9 you have to waste power dice on the scorch cast... Kinda ruins on of the best rings of the bell.

Can the Skaven riding the bell not take a Look Out Sir save from the Clan Rats pushing it?

Aduro wrote:Can the Skaven riding the bell not take a Look Out Sir save from the Clan Rats pushing it?

nope

the rule book states that to recieve a "look out sir!" roll, you have to be of the same troop type. A bell I believe is actually "unique" ? but it follows the rules for monstrous mounts. so, would that mean that you can take a "look out sir!" if a unit of say, Rat Ogres is within 3" of it?


hmmmmm.

Probably not, what do you guys think?

and btw...I totally didnt think about that lore of life thing...LOL I cant wait to pull that on my local lizardman player when he trots out his t7 saurus block! hahahahahaha

Good thing I use Skinks, so I only go up to T6!