Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When a Monster is in combat, it's Handlers get to attack as well. If you have a unit of two or more monsters, but only one of them gets into BtB, do all the Handlers in the unit get to attack?

I would say no since the M&H rule says "Their" monster.

Ditto.

So do you have to keep track of which Handlers for which monsters have died during the game? Allocate wounds to each Monster each time hits are dealt to see who's Handlers die?

You follow the rules for shooting at multi-wound models where you pull whole models first. It only matters for shooting wounds since you can't target the handlers in melee combat. The book says they are markers or counters. Once the monster is gone, the handlers go too so they are basically ablative wounds for shooting.

You can't target the Handlers in shooting either. You roll to hit and wound against the monster, the monster makes his save, then if he fails you decide if he takes a wound or if a Handler dies. If you've got two monsters who come with four handlers each, and three handlers die to shooting, how many Handlers get to fight in melee if only one Monster is in BtB contact?

I think the reasonable answer is "as many handlers as come with a monster can fight for each monster that is in b2b."

So if you have 3 handlers per 1 monster, 3 handlers can fight per monster that is in base to base.

How ever many of their handlers remain for that particular monster would attack.

What exactly is the situation you are seeing. ? This seems to be pretty straight forward. Honestly I think this is the best wording of the M&H rule they've had (not saying much I know but still).

My guess would be salamanders / razordons and their handlers.

Exactly what I'm thinking too but I don't see a situation that isn't already covered. Even if they get flanked against the undamaged one (the only way only one of them could be unengaged), it would get the full allotment of attacks from the monster and the skinks. Any hits back would go against the "wounded" one first even if that's the one that's engaged since you can't spread wounds around in a unit.

So if you had a unit of 3 salamanders with 12 skinks and it got flanked and one salamander was in b2b, you'd allow all 12 skinks to attack?

No, the rule says only monsters in BtB so only 4 would be able to attack.

Right, that's what I was saying.

I think Adura was saying, what if one of those 12 skinks got killed by shooting. Do we have to keep track of which salamander it belonged to?

I think the answer is no. If 3 salamanders with 12 skinks lose 1 skink, then the unit is flanked and only one salamander was in b2b, 4 skinks would still be able to attack.

Oooo, oooo, What if only one of the Salamanders purchased the extra Skink Handler, giving you three Salamanders and ten Skink Handlers? Would three or four Skinks attack to a flank?

I am for the record not trying to be difficult. Just a situation that came up in a game and got me working out the various situations where such similar things can arise.

I would give you 4. It is just going to be easier that way.

Also, I think someone else said earlier that the handlers are just ablative wounds for shooting. Looking at the rule just now, I think shooting OR close combat wounds go onto the handlers on a 5+.

The rule says "When the monster suffers an unsaved wound, roll a d6..."

Only shooting wounds get randomized. Close combat wounds all do to the monster and the accompaning handlers are removed at that point.

It doesn't say shooting, it just says when he takes a wound I'm fairly sure, so it works in close combat as well.

Yea I'm pretty sure you're wrong Ronin. See the language I cited.

Yep, unlike 7th where shootign was randomised, CC wasnt, M&H now *explicitly* states simply "wounds" are randomised.

Meaning you always use the monsters toughness when wounding, and the hydras handlers are now unkillable outside of "sniper" rules and their ilk.

True. The is wording in the second paragraph that said they couldn't be attacked directly. That was why I thought they couldn't be hit in CC and everything went in the monster.