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Several Questions:
If you turn your wizard into a monster, can the opponent challenge it? Do the special rules of the wizard still take place(Such as Primal Fury for a Bray Shaman)? Last, if the monster dies, does your wizard die too?

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes

Thank you. Just some things that should have been included in the book...

They are included in the book.

So if you do keep your abilities, would that mean that an Ethereal Vampire lord can become an unkillable dragon with one lucky roll?

zeekill wrote:So if you do keep your abilities, would that mean that an Ethereal Vampire lord can become an unkillable dragon with one lucky roll?

He is far from unkillable lol... You charge, do some wounds, combat is a push or you win. Block is probably stubborn...

Next turn opponent throws a brick at dispelling your vamp... He becomes a tiny unit against a big one, and even though he does some wounds he crumbles do to SCR...

Also where does it say that you cant challenge, as far as i know its still a character, its just transformed..

zeekill wrote:So if you do keep your abilities, would that mean that an Ethereal Vampire lord can become an unkillable dragon with one lucky roll?

Nope, definitely not unkillable.

Firstly most armies can deliver magical attacks, for example the entirety of the daemon book. Secondly you forget about static combat res - and even if you win (only takes one fluff and you dont), the unit will have more ranks than you and so will be stubborn (unless skirmishing, but skirmishes shouldnt be caught by you anyway....), on a decent leadership, and so will likely hold, more so if the BSB is nearby (and again, with at least one turn to prepare this should be definitely doable) and next turn you are down yet more combat res (no +1 charging) and they have possibly flanked you.

And even then that assumes the opposing army hasnt dispelled the spell, meaning you are suddenly a lone Vampire lord, likely your general, sitting waaaay away from your troops.

You can keep the vamp in the unit, but you are still then essentially gaining a few more attacks at better strength, at the cost of less of your guys attacking. Not hugely worth it.

Also im not sure people realize that when the cast that you lose, more then likely, one of your stronger casters...

You cant channel or cast spells while transformed.

Ethereal vampire lord with forbidden lore -> no magic items (and no additional crazy bloodline powers either)

I'd rather just have the standard casting vamp with +2 pd and helm than the above 1 trick pony.
(mountainchimera with red fury could deal potentialy 80ish wounds in 1 combat phase, though)

So...special abilities stay, just no armour, weapons that he was carrying and no casting or channeling? Sounds good for me.

According to the FAQ

Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation of
Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No

Therefore his items still work. The guy above talking about ethereal vamps can't take magic items if they become ethereal.

Synnister wrote:According to the FAQ

Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation of
Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No

Therefore his items still work. The guy above talking about ethereal vamps can't take magic items if they become ethereal.

Transformation of Kadon specifically states "...all of his magic items and mundane equipment (armour, weapons, etc) temporarily stop working."

The FAQ is addressing whether special abilities stop working as well as the items. So, a High Elf wizard transformed would still have Always Strike First, a Dark Elf Eternal Hatred, VC would still be Unbreakable/Unstable etc.

ShivanAngel wrote:

zeekill wrote:So if you do keep your abilities, would that mean that an Ethereal Vampire lord can become an unkillable dragon with one lucky roll?

He is far from unkillable lol... You charge, do some wounds, combat is a push or you win. Block is probably stubborn...

Next turn opponent throws a brick at dispelling your vamp... He becomes a tiny unit against a big one, and even though he does some wounds he crumbles do to SCR...

Also where does it say that you cant challenge, as far as i know its still a character, its just transformed..

Actually, with the Ethereal Vamp Dragon, you might not even have to dispel the Transformation to hut it. If you counter charge the dragon, you could get SCR of 8 pretty easily. If the dragon failed to kill that many, the dragon still suffers from crumbling, as that's a "special rule" for the Vampire.

So, is their any benefit for turning into a monster? I know as a Bray Shaman can have Primal Fury, but I don't know what good it could do that would be game changing like other top spells.

Well, you get to stay in your unit if you want - meaning if you have charged into combat that squishy mage is now a lot harder to kill!

It is just on their own that it isnt a good idea...

Okay, that makes more sense. Thank you everybody.

I thought this was FAQ'd that only beastmen could take this spell anyway.

Ummmm no where would you get that idea? Its a main rulebook lore of magic. Your thinking of the Lore of the Wild spell where you can summon a ghorgon, jabberslythe or cygor. You don't transform on that one - basically all of the negatives as the other spell, plus you take wounds when the summoned monster does. What a crappy lore.

You know, weirdly enough, you can't summon a cygor with that spell. Just a Ghorgon, Giant, or Jabber. Often overlooked, perhaps because it doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe Cygor are just too resistant to magic to answer the summons.

RZ

Mattbranb wrote:Ummmm no where would you get that idea? Its a main rulebook lore of magic. Your thinking of the Lore of the Wild spell where you can summon a ghorgon, jabberslythe or cygor. You don't transform on that one - basically all of the negatives as the other spell, plus you take wounds when the summoned monster does. What a crappy lore.

Well it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. Once summoned it can't be dispelled. The only way to remove it from the game is to basically kill it (not easy) or the mage who has summoned it (who is probably hiding in a massive unit of gors - also not easy). You aren't definately going to take wounds: you take them if you fail a T test, which only happens a third of the time, or a sixth if you take a great bray.