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OK, I have 2 Sets of Black Reach. I am trying to modify one of the GW army lists, I think it was the Armored Speerhead list. Here's my thoughts, and a few questions:

Captain with bolter and either a power sword or Relic blade>>100-130 (I have 2)

2x 10 man Tactical Squads w/ flamer and ML >>170 each

10 Terminators with 2 SGT and 8 w/Storm Bolter/Power Fist ( thinking I'll put 7-8 in a Land Raider) 40Pts a model

2x Drednoughts w/ Multi Melta and CCW wih storm bolter, I think they're 105 each

so with 1 Capt with Relic blade, and 8 Termies, the rest listed above its right at 1000pts...

I'm looking to add tanks and transports, I'm not too sure about speeders, bikes, or assault marines...
What to add? I'm thinking a LR Crusader for the Termies, A Vindicator was suggested by gamers I met.
dunno what else>>>> looking to make it into a 1500 list...then 2000 with more tanks

any input is great

First off, get Rhinos for the Tac Squads, and a Land Raider for the Terminators. You'll have to lose a bunch of them, however, since a crusader can only hold 8. Make sure you put a multi-melta on it. Also, bits order a Cclone Missile Launcher for one of your Terminators. Vindicators are good, too. At this point, your captain will be all by his lonesome. Grab 5 Sternguard and a TL-Assault Cannon Razorback and give the captain Hellfire Rounds. Have them all ride in the Razorback.

You need to decide which way you want to go with your list, wether you want a foot slogging list or a mechinized list.

If you want a mechanized list, give your tactical squads razorbacks and the terminators a landraider.

If you want a footslogging list, you can never go wrong with some AC/HB predators. If you decide on vindicators, the optimal number to have is 3...

I am curious as to how most people use a Razorback, Combat squad the units and put SGT and melta +3 in and then leave ML and the rest behind???

How do I bits order? I'd love some bitz, like power fists, and such, thinking of ordering a couple singles from GW, and a vet squad to use to make my Tactical marines look cooler.... and the one has a PowerFist, he'd be the SGT....

I was thinking a LR crusader, w/7 termies, then I could add a chaplain termie... is that a good unit? or just do 8 termies

I was thinking of a rhino to put one Tac. Sqd. in, and the other can ride into battle on their Chevrolegs for now, but people keep telling me get 2-3 rhinos, preds, vindicators, and never just one of anything.... why 3 vindicators? and then I'd be pushing it for pts for anything else.... I'm hoping to turn my 1000 pts into that, a 1500, and a 2000 pts list.. at what level do I NEED to get a third Tac. Squad?

Would a Battleforce be worth it, I'd use the marines most likely, and the scouts sometimes I think, and the Rhino for sure.... but the Assault squad im not too sure about...
do you end up with alot more options/nicer figures from the normal boxed sets?

I was thinking the LR, a Rhino, a Vindi, and a Predator/rhino ( I think that can be done from the pred kit) I haven't looked up the pts but I know the Crusader is gonna be 250-300 depending, and I'm looking to basically add about 800 pts of tanks and transports....... I LIKE TANKS, almost got a Leman Russ just to put on the china hutch..... LOL

Let me know if I'm on the right track, and If I could use this at 1000pts and be OK????

Captain w/ Relic Blade and boltgun 130
Tac Sqd of 10 with ML and Flamer, Sgt w/ pistol/chain sword
Tac Sqd of 10 ( same as above ) 170 each x2
Termies x8 storm bolter and PFx7, SGT w/power sword 320
2x drednought w/ CCW, storm bolter, and Multi-Melta 105ea

right at 1000.....

thanks again for all your posts....

so.. it looks like you pretty new to the game, as well as to running a Sv3+/MEQ force (ie Space marine/necron/chaos marines) one of the posters, suggested that you spend $120 and the other suggested that you drop $210 and so far from your OP and your follow up you seem to be in the market between 65-90. i'll warned you about buying models before you "test play" or Proxy them in at least 3-5 conflicts. try to find some like minded or easy going gamers and use your rhino as a LRC or a Vindicator for a few nose bleeds.
Best Advice i would give regarding what you should purchase would need the following questioned answered... What did you do with the x40 bases that were for the ORKS boys in AOBR box sets??? IF YOU Still have them, then you should purchase x2 Dark angel chapter upgrades from GW's mail order, they cost $20 bucks each, Free S/H and you'll get x20 (10 each upgrade) Powered armored Marines wearing robes. also included are x2 Power fist, and a couple of terminator assault cannons + a couple of Storm sheilds for your Capt w/ that Relic blade. And if you dont have the bases you can order them from GW but i dont know for how much. As for where you can buy bits, you can go to ebay and do a search for 40K space marine bits (look for a Seller by the handle of Window-box, out of Atl GA)
ok.. the reason for 3 vindacator, isn't bad advice, it just wrong advice. the Proper advice is to take "PAIRS" of tanks(tanks.. not transports, remember that the land raider is 1st a transport then a battle tank), dreads, landspeeders, or attackbikes. The reason behind this is long and detailed but in one breath, if one missed, or gets slagged, you have a another to "finish" the mission, and with two, you'll damage taken will be spilt between two targets, increases your chance of seeing the next turn. Taking 3 Vindicator is known as a Lind breaker formation. and it's a wonderful thing if you playing at 3000+ points, and more like at 5000 pts. not 1500. Did i miss any thing?
Oh yeah.. The HALF company, you should if you are, if you not iggy this part, IF you are new to playing space marines, and 40k, or if you just new to playing SM, then you should start by playing a HALF Company. Which is 3 full tacticals, 1 full assault squad, 1 full Devastator squad w/x4 heavy weapons Plus an HQ w/ a jump pack: most would suggest, transports for the 3 tacticals in the form of rhinos. i would echo this but warn you of that the PUSH from the rules to run an mech force is GW way of squeezing the pennies out of the poor folk.
Seeing how you don't have the heavy weapons yet to run a full devastator, or the CCW/bp and jumppacks to run a half Company.
i would get at least one Dark angel chapter upgrade, and if you dont have the bases, get em. then you could run this.
Capt with Storm sheild and Relic blade
10 terminator with x2 Assault Cannon
x2 dreads with MM+DCCW (but i would proxy these as TLLC's) (needed long range sure hitting tank peeling fire power) (and you can find TLLC on Ebay pretty easy with the new Ven plastic kit.)
and 3 Tacticals with power weapons, storm bolters (from your TDA's) FL+ML+PF+MB etc etc (PF+MB+ML is 200 even n well balanced btw)
that's about 1510 or so.. easy to shave a few points...
for $20..maybe $25 if you don't have the bases.
and welcome to the brother hood marine.
PM if ya like.
oh i did miss, your love for the trend and the gear. Run two Dakka Predators(autocannon+HB sides+SB: 10 shots at 24 inches x2 if paired) plus a whirlwind (Pm for a cheap and easy AOBR convertion) 275? pretty sure... leave one of those dreads on your strike crusier and your at 1750pt..

Thanks for the input,
I plan to add a LR Crusader, for 7 termies and a character, or 8 termies......
I also plan to add either a Pred. or Vindicator..., and a transport for one of the Tac. Squads.... can't decide whether to go Rhino. . . or Razorback...
thinking of combat squads for one unit. .. put the 5+Capt. in and keep ML and 4 behind.... and keep the other Tac. unit @ 10 strong...add a rhino eventually... what kits make a rhino as well? Pred.... Razorback... ?
hoping to add mech to get to 1500, then more mech and another Tac Squad to get to 2000.... is that sane???? or do I need more than 2 Troops at 1500???
I also want to get a SGT with power fist model. #2 on GW site (singles, the green one) and a Sternguard squad to make the PF model a SGT, and add the vets into my Tac Squads to make them more unique looking... like conversions... LOL would that be OK?
Is one LR, one Pred. and one Vindicator not good to do? 3 tanks but only 1 of each.... I gotta have the LR I think, but unsure about what supporting tanks to get.... and transports as well.... if I don't like the Razorback can I make it into a Rhino?

Thanks again, sorry for the book, excited noob here

I'll try to keep replies to one liners, not long rambling posts.

axelsfolks wrote: can't decide whether to go Rhino. . . or Razorback...

Buy the razor box, it has the parts for a rhino too.

Many GW boxes have parts for several: The LRCrusader box has LRRedeemer guns, too. The Tau SkyRay has parts for all three (four) of its tanks. Both boxes allow you to switch configurations between games, as long as you don't glue 'em. Heh, for the spiky bits, I bought chaos rhinos and use 'em for both SM and CSM, and have been using the evil decorations for terrain and such.
Oh, dear, gods, did I just mention a positive, good, customer friendly, aspect of GW's product/marketing?. The Apocalypse must be coming. And I don't mean another book comin' outta Nottingham, more like ... the mid-east or a Cecil B Demille flick.

axelsfolks wrote:thinking of combat squads for one unit. .. put the 5+Capt. in and keep ML and 4 behind.... and keep the other Tac. unit @ 10 strong...add a rhino eventually... what kits make a rhino as well? Pred.... Razorback... ?

Combat Squads are a bad tactic. Don't.

You're a nooB, so take it from a guy who tried this non-sense when the Dark Angels codex came out a couple years ago. It makes the unit too fragile. As far as the razorback? It's really an over priced Twin-Linked gun. Now, if you have a specialized unit, like Sternguard, then a Razor is okay, but the rhino and a full sized unit is the best bet every time.

axelsfolks wrote:hoping to add mech to get to 1500, then more mech and another Tac Squad to get to 2000.... is that sane???? or do I need more than 2 Troops at 1500???

Yes. General rule of thumb: A troop choice per 500 points of game., so 4 is all you'll ever really need.

axelsfolks wrote:I also want to get a SGT with power fist model. #2 on GW site (singles, the green one) and a Sternguard squad to make the PF model a SGT, and add the vets into my Tac Squads to make them more unique looking... like conversions... LOL would that be OK?

Yes. You're best off getting the bits (GW's website can be ordered from and delivered to your house or the local GW store) and putting them onto a model that you assemble from a box (meaning arms, head, torso and legs are all separate pieces), not the AoBR box marines.

Ebay is good too. Lotsa my models are ebay purchases, easily half of them.

axelsfolks wrote:Is one LR, one Pred. and one Vindicator not good to do? 3 tanks but only 1 of each.... I gotta have the LR I think,

More of anything means an exponential survival increase.

1 pred Opponent says, "Eh."
2 preds He says, "Aw, crap."
3 preds "Damnit, I can't get rid of those!"

So, yeah, one of each, or pair preds and an LR or two LRs and a Vin, etc.

axelsfolks wrote:but unsure about what supporting tanks to get.... and transports as well.... if I don't like the Razorback can I make it into a Rhino?

Answer is 'Yes'.

axelsfolks wrote:Thanks again, sorry for the book, excited noob here

You sound like a rich one too. You got $500 or so to blow on all this?

Thanks for the input, not rich by any means..... I don't drive a nice car... don't have a flat screen (21").... or PS3/360....
I am a roofer, and work hard for every penny.... so I treat myself to toys... and my kids get lots of them too.....
I eat cheapo lunchmeat on my sandwiches, and mix my own Gatorade to freeze into blocks.... only way to have a cold drink after 10AM on a rooftop..... But glad to hear I don't sound like a total Redneck......LOL

We, my wifey and I , take turns on getting something when we go to the game store, so It will be one at a time.... but my AOBR minis are almost all painted up.... and I like tanks...

About the Sternguard, I want them to build just like pictured on GW site.... I just want different, more elaborate models to put into my Tactical Squads.... and I could use the PF model as the SGT.... this may be how I end up getting a 3rd Tac Squad... just wondering if that would be OK to do, I mean, if most gamers wouldn't mind.... I'd be painting them to match my squads, just that they'd have more medals/decorations.... etc.... Just wondering what people thought....

Happy Gaming

Commander Endova wrote:First off, get Rhinos for the Tac Squads, and a Land Raider for the Terminators. You'll have to lose a bunch of them, however, since a crusader can only hold 8. Make sure you put a multi-melta on it. Also, bits order a Cclone Missile Launcher for one of your Terminators. Vindicators are good, too. At this point, your captain will be all by his lonesome. Grab 5 Sternguard and a TL-Assault Cannon Razorback and give the captain Hellfire Rounds. Have them all ride in the Razorback.

This is all really sound advice IMHO. If you want to use a Captain I think the only real weapons option is a Relic Blade. A powerfist will make his high I worthless and the powersword is underwhelming when you can get a Str 6 weapon that strikes at I order and can glance the rear armor on most vehicles. The idea of a Captain in Razorback with Sternguard never occured to me before, Vulkan in a Sternguard yes but you have given me something else to try. I second the notion of Rhinos for the Tac squads being a must.

axelsfolks wrote:I eat cheapo lunchmeat on my sandwiches, and mix my own Gatorade to freeze into blocks.... only way to have a cold drink after 10AM on a rooftop..... But glad to hear I don't sound like a total Redneck......LOL

I've got Oscar Mayer roast beef and turkey in the fridge and a beer next to me now ... and I don't own a pick up. I wonder where I fit in there.

axelsfolks wrote: About the Sternguard, I want them to build just like pictured on GW site.... I just want different, more elaborate models to put into my Tactical Squads....

Then you buy the tactical box. As the arms, head, torso, and legs are all separate and posable this'll allow you to maximize your custom assembly. I'd even recommend getting the Space Wolves box, as they have more cool bling, just skip using the beardy heads.

axelsfolks wrote: and I could use the PF model as the SGT.... this may be how I end up getting a 3rd Tac Squad... just wondering if that would be OK to do, I mean, if most gamers wouldn't mind.... I'd be painting them to match my squads, just that they'd have more medals/decorations.... etc.... Just wondering what people thought.... Happy Gaming

I have not bought a single SG model. But, I did take SM models (AoBR, BfMaccragge and 'normal ones'), and paint helmets white and blue (color scheme is black with foundation blue shoulder pads & knees/grieves). I had a few extra Purity Seals, and attached those to the bolters. I painted that laurel thing, like in the last post. And gave each of the 10, a little extra love on the paint job. When I find pictures, maybe I'll post 'em. They're not great, but slightly more ... 'elite' than my tacticals.

That ought to do, until you pony up the cash for SG outta the box.

yeah, never buy a SC figure... in Fact an easy easy convertion is to take the Capt from the AOBR box set. go on line, and bit order a left handed plasma pistol from the Assault marine box or the new Death company box.. an extra fancy plastic shoulder pad. after some careful cutting and glueing.. you've got your self a SC Capt."Sicarius" of the Ultra marine chapter. for what... like $4? better than $17
oh, and if you have to have Tanks... i understand i do.. rule of thumb is one LR isnt enuff.. and 3 is too many, so run a pair of Raiders, one in heavy support and a couple of Vindacators.. Add a pair of Land speeders for air support and ur golden... stick with marines for a bit.. and if you need more ARMOR.. look into IG forces

I started my Space Marine army with two AoBR boxes! I've since added:
-razorback
-command squad
-thunderfire cannon
-drop pod
-converted one dread into an ironclad
-10 man scout sniper squad
-assault cannon for termies
(I also sold my second dread to my brother who is making orks with stolen parts painted with my space marine colors)

Put the captain and his command squad in the razorback and throw them at something big and dangerous. Often my opponent overlooks it because its "just a transport with a big gun on it" and then they die.

Combat squads are essential for being able to use your ML well. A well placed krak or frag can win a game for you! The biggest drawback I've seen to combat squads is they each count as an extra kill point. Rhinos are a good idea, that allows your small 5 man squad to still get some shooty in/cap a point without getting blown to bits.

The thunderfire cannon has been amazingly effective for me. However, you have to use every advantage you can in order to keep it alive, because its often a very high priority target for your enemy. Use the techmarine's bolster defense to increase the cover save of a ruin, then hide the marine inside the ruin with the gun outside for clear line of fire. Half the squad in cover=nice cover save for your fragile artillery! I plan to get a second cannon in the near future!

The drop pod can really shake up the enemy, with its ability to deepstrike turn one. I put a locater beacon on it so my termies can teleport in without scatter in turn 2! In the drop pod I keep my ironclad. He's got good heavy armour popping capabilities as well as dealing with swarm units well, not to mention his increased armour makes him able to survive until the termies arrive to back him up. Optionally you could have three drop pods so you get two in on turn 1, but at that point a lot of your army is depending on this strat to pay off.

I love my scouts. With the sniper rifles you need to pick your targets well, mainly using them to pin down high risk targets, like tau broadsides or artillery. Also, combining their camo cloaks with the tech marine's bolster defenses grants the best cover save money can buy! Get these suckers in a tall enough tower and they're unstoppable. I like getting the heavy bolter upgrade with them, because aside from the nice basic HB stats, they can use the special poisoned blast alternate fire.

The assault cannon on the termies has proven useful in the past, but I think getting the cyclone missle launcher would be a better investment.

Overall, my list is not optimized. BUT, this mix has given me a lot of insight into possible future lists. I usually get a 2-1 score in the local tournaments using this list.

Also, if you've got a land raider, think about converting the termies to assault!

wondering where i might be able to get a termie with cyclone missile launcher... or just the launcher... as I don't have a PayPal acct... so I don't think I can use ebay...

Thanks for all the advice guys...

OK , thanks again for all the sound advice...

I have just picked up a LR Crusader/Redeemer Kit, and a Razorback kit...
I'm not sure it I'm ready to do magnets at this point... I'm gonna look into it...

Is there any advice on how to equip them... the spiked plow thing on the razorback, is that to represent the dozer blade? is that worth putting onto either the rhino or razorback?

I'm thinking build it so I can remove the top and place the rhino doors there, and that should be all that I need to change , right? and if I don't magnetize the turret, what is the best weapon to run...
I will have 7-8 termies in a LRC, termies have SB/PF
2x MM/CCW dreads
and 2x ML in my tact squads
I'm thinking TL las-cannon and add the SB and such...
manned gun on hatch or not?
And is it a sin to glue up tanks, IE make my Land Raider Crusader just that, not a redeemer too...

Thanks again for all the help

axelsfolks wrote:I am curious as to how most people use a Razorback, Combat squad the units and put SGT and melta +3 in and then leave ML and the rest behind???

This is exactly how I use my Tactical Squads. I know a lot of people don't like Combat Squading, but I am personally a huge fan of it. Reason being is because you get to use your Heavy Weapon potentially every turn of the game. When a Tact Squad stays complete, they're either always on the move, or sitting perfectly still. One way or another, you're either missing out on using the Heavy Weapon, or the Special Weapon and Sgt are not close enough for firing/assaulting.

Combat Squading them, and putting the Heavy Weapon in the back end of your board, while letting your Sgt and Special Weapon push forward in either a Rhino or Razorback increases your versatility at using all of your arsenal. Now, does that mean you're going to have 4 other Marines in the back that probably won't get to shoot? Yes, it unfortunately does. But having the option of using the Heavy Weapon almost every turn is well worth the exchange, especially if you don't carry a lot of Heavy Support in your army list already.

The biggest advantage to this, IMHO, is that they're cheaper than taking Devastator Squads, and you add more scoring units to the table. Take four Tact Squads, Combat Squad them, and you've got 4 Heavy Weapons for a margin of what a Devastator Squad will cost you. So if you happen to be playing an objective based game, you can have 1 Combat Squad sitting on an objective on your end, while the other Squad pursues another. In a Kill Points game however, this is a double-edged sword. While you are adding more versatility to your list by using all of your weapons, you're putting additional Kill Points on the table for your opponent to kill.

Regardless, Combat Squading is an ability you need to use with care. For me, it has worked out more often than not. I have yet to lose a game strictly because I Combat Squaded a Tact Squad.

That all being said now, I prefer Razorbacks to Rhinos for the simple reason that I don't need to transport that many people when I Combat Squad. It come stock with a TL Heavy Bolter, and has all the abilities a Rhino has (save for the ability to self repair).

Anyways, I hope you're finding the game fun, and I hope my advice helped. Good luck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

axelsfolks wrote:
I'm thinking build it so I can remove the top and place the rhino doors there, and that should be all that I need to change , right? and if I don't magnetize the turret, what is the best weapon to run...

Never glue the tops onto Rhinos/Razorbacks, because they are interchangeable. Same goes for the LR Turret. These pieces are interchangeable with other vehicles, and you'll never know when you'll need it for them. Unless you know that the vehicle comes stock with the weapon all the time, AND it's not a weapon that would be hard to replace (like a Storm Bolter on a vehicle), do not glue anything to the vehicle itself.

My advice would also be to not glue on the side doors, since you can convert it to a Predator when you need to. Magnetizing the doors would be immensely helpful, and I encourage you look into it sooner than later.

With Side Sponsons from the Predator set, it's approximately 1/8" between the sponson and the inside edge of the Rhino. I use 1/16" magnets to make this work.

With the Side Doors, it's approximately 1/4" from the door to the inside edge of the Rhino. I use 1/16" and 1/8" magnets to make this work.

Go to this website: http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/

You'll find all the magnets you need for a very cheap price. They're easy to glue on, and work wonders. You won't regret you did it.

I plan to build a Razorback, and use it as either a Razorback or Rhino... I need to know what Turret to build...
I plan to get 2 Predators and build a Rhino and a Predator with different armament options....
And a Vindicator Kit to build too...
My Plan is to have an army similar to the Spearhead army on the GW Space Marines sample armies article....

What Turret Option?
Eventually I will get another Razorback, and build the other turret option and a rhino, as I will not Combat Squad every unit, just 1... so I will only run 1 razorback...

thanks for posting, I've been looking at youtube and found some good examples of magnetizations there and elsewhere... I'm just wanting to only do a few magnetizations... not on everything, and I don't mind buying rhinos with extra weapons options for the other tanks I have later... ie. more predators and Razorbacks....

The only things I magnetize are Rhinos, because they're interchangeable for Predators and Razorbacks, and Land Speeders and Land Speeder Storms, because of the various weapon options they get.

Otherwise, you're not going to need to do much magnetizing. You could magnetize the side sponson weapons on a Land Raider, and now you can have all 3 different variants when you need them.

As for which turret option, if you already have a Land Raider Crusader (with the Assault Cannon Turret), build something you don't have yet (ie - Heavy Bolter or Lascannon). I would pick the Heavy Bolter, mainly because that is what they come stock with, and if you're strapped for points in a game, you can easily take what it normally comes with.

Or you can just be like me and buy turret bitz on ebay and have all the variants you need.

Good luck!

I have a LR Crusader/Redeemer, and Razorback ,.....
in kit form, haven't built them yet... just starting the Razorback build tonight...
I'm stumped as to what options to use for the hatch....
can a Rhino or Razrback have 2 weapons other than the turret on the lazorback.???
I'm thinking with the army I have, The TL las... as it would add some anti tank to the anti infantry of a crusader variant LR and my troops and termies with bolters and stormbolters

I'm thinking of trying to field a list like this:

2x Captain with bolter and Relic Blade 260
2x Tac. Squad with ML/Flamer 340
1 Razorback w/ TL Lascannon, HKM, SB, and dozer blade (that's the spikey plow thing, right?) 100
2x Dreadnought with MM/CCW with Storm Bolter 210
8x Termies SB/PF and SGT with SB/PS 320
1 Land Raider Crusader +MM&SB 270

1500, I could shave a few here and there, put 7 termies and a Capt in the LRC, combat squad one unit with a capt in the Lazorback... and when I get the model I could give the other Tac. Squad a Rhino...

Will this list be OK, or is it completely bunk...this is basically what I have right now in terms of models. When I can get more models what should I go with?


1x Capt with Relic Blade 130
2x Tact. Squad.... 340
7x SB/PF Termies 280
2x MM/CCW Dreads 210
Crusader 250
Razorback with TL HB, SB, and Dozer Blade 55
Rhino with extra Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade 50
Predator with LAS/LAS + SB and Dozer Blade 180

I think that leaves about 5 pts for melta bombs or something
This puts all the men but one combat squad in a transport, and adds a tank... I'm unsure what all to do, but keep in mind this means I gotta build 4 tanks, and buy 2 of them....

Is the first list OK, and am I headed in the right direction?

I'm also thinking of adding another Tac squad... should I do that before adding the Predator? and see if I can squeeze in some more anti-tank somewhere?

I'm eventually trying to get to 2000, and I want a mech/spearhead type army... like the one on GW's sample armies...

Thanks again for all the help,
Isaiah