Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ok, A friend pointed this out to me and I am still unsure of what to think of it. On page 79 of the 4th ed Dark Angel Codex under the Entry on Belial, it states the following:

If Belial is in the army, Deathwing Terinator Squads may be treated as a Troops Choice as well as an Elite Choice.

Does that mean that if you choice to treat them as a troop choice they take up two Force Organisation slots? Because he was fighting the point that it does, I really can't see it doing that, I think it is more a either/or kinda of deal, where you can choice to make them troop choices if you like, but all keep them all elite if you like. What is your take on this?

It means you can take them as either troops or as elites depending on what you want. (psst - take them as troops).

the key word is "may". you simply choose where you need them. the space wolf loganwing version doesn't give them the choice; wolf guard ARE troops when logan grimnar is around.

I just wish I could increase the unit size to 10 over just 5, but then again, it could be view as broken when you can have 90 terminators on the field.

90 Terminators?

What size battles are you planning on down there in NC?

Depends on the day my friend =D

On that note, Is there a Offical model for Belial?

nope, there's never been an official model. i converted the space hulk sergeant lorenzo model as mine (i use the space hulk termies and play them as counts as deathwing).

I hope this guy could be a good model for him for the time being

he definitely works. he's a terminator captain and belial is a terminator captain so there shouldn't be any confusion there. the only catch is his weapons. some tourny organizers may only allow you to play him with the stormbolter/PW combo since that'll be the only WYSIWYG option with the mini. if you play in alot of tournies, keep that in mind (or magnetize the weapons so you can choose on the fly).

sadly it is glue together, but I may cute it up a bit later to toss some magnets on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but his standard gear is a Sword of Silence and a Storm bolter, so it isn't too horrible, plus if I really want to fight the point Lighting Claws do retract into the Terminator armour.

Alastergrimm wrote:sadly it is glue together, but I may cute it up a bit later to toss some magnets on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but his standard gear is a Sword of Silence and a Storm bolter, so it isn't too horrible, plus if I really want to fight the point Lighting Claws do retract into the Terminator armour.

no, they don't. you're thinking of the x-man wolverine, not 40k lightning claws, lol. the claws they've come out with for the past 10 years (which is twice as long as belial has been around) include a bar that the terminators hold with their fingers to which the actual blades are attached. if he's modelled with a powersword and storm bolter, that's what he has WYWSIWIG. that being said, i seriously doubt someone will tell you you can't play him with the other loadouts but there's always the possibility (which is why i mentioned it). perhaps the fact that he's got 3 different sets of weapons is why GW never made a model of him since they'd be breaking their own WYSIWIG rules by not including 3 sets of different weapons with him. the PW/SB combo isn't bad; i just happen to like the other two more.

Actually warboss I am about 90% sure you are wrong. I seem to recall in my DA codex and my friend's SM codex that they DO retract (at work so I can't check).

Back to the point... why is Belial green? Also, I made my own using terminator parts and the head from the assault termy box (I think that's the head...). Oh and a DA banner.

Edit:

Had my friend check... no space marine codex (BT, DA, etc. included [even C:CSM]) mentions it... BUT DoW mentions Vance Stubbs having retractable lightning claws and a Raven Guard traitor in Dead Sky Black Sun by Graham McNeil has "sheathable" ones. I knew I heard it somewhere... obviously I suppose this may not apply to all...

Ya, I may repaint him to a ivory white, but I really don't like the color theme of the Deathwing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had heard it myself that lightning claw retract as well.

The DA FAQ states that Lightning Claws may retract into the gauntlets. (From a fluff point of view only).

Though this is not particularly well represented in the model range.

You can play them pre-Cloud Runner! Black like the Ravenwing! Or play a successor chapter

Nope, they are either troops or elites. Therefore, you could field 9 squads of terminators, even though that would be 2,065 points, it would be awesome!!!

That's why I grab every terminator I can get my hands on, I want to field that one day for fun!

sorry solofalcon1138 im with the warboss camp on this one! it says that the squad "may " be treated as a troop choice when belial is present. so terminators are elite and will fill elite slots unless you take belial in which case they may fill the slots of troops if you so wish (hence the whole point of having an otherwise pointless and relatively weak terminator captain). also if they are troop selection i read it as they are the normal troops and can secure objectives too!surely this is the whole point of the deathwing and the reason why and how people can play total white wing armies same as the reason for people taking sammael for the ravenwing.

Thats what he said?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thats what he said?

seems like it. is everyone agreeing but no one realizing it, lol?

The best model to use for belial is the terminator captain, if you add a little green stuff and shave down parts of him then you can make a really awesome belial model. Back to the point at hand, like people have said you can take your terminators as either elites and/or troops. most people field them as troops just for the fact that they can then field other elite choices

upon a third reading , yes argueing about both being right! LOL my bad haha.

sar mikael wrote:sorry solofalcon1138 im with the warboss camp on this one! it says that the squad "may " be treated as a troop choice when belial is present. so terminators are elite and will fill elite slots unless you take belial in which case they may fill the slots of troops if you so wish (hence the whole point of having an otherwise pointless and relatively weak terminator captain). also if they are troop selection i read it as they are the normal troops and can secure objectives too!surely this is the whole point of the deathwing and the reason why and how people can play total white wing armies same as the reason for people taking sammael for the ravenwing.

huh? I have always seen the ruling as when Belial is in your army, Deathwing squads are either Elites or troops. So one could fill up to 6 troop choices and 3 elites choices with terminators, if they wanted to. This would also make those troop selected-Deathwings scoring units.

I'm not sure where we are diverging on this topic...

He already said he misread what you wrote.