Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Like the title says. Trying to get a concesus of what people think. Sort of like the "rolling two dice for twin-linked" thread.

Instead of disembarking or embarking 2", then moving up to 6", if someone moves their models 3"-8" away from their transport, how do people see that? Better yet, are there people that play this way already? Can't it be used to fudge movement a bit (like moving through things that may not be so easy with the two-part move)? Or is this just as legal as moving 2" and then moving 6"? Personal preference? Shady? What?

Probably a little shady, as it would allow for movement shenanigans, espcially with 10+ models coming out of a tranport.

I guess so long as each model is within 8", and the unti is no larger than 2" "thick" at any point after the move it wouldnt be too bad, but I probably wouldnt allow it tbh.

puma713 wrote:Like the title says. Trying to get a concesus of what people think. Sort of like the "rolling two dice for twin-linked" thread.

Instead of disembarking or embarking 2", then moving up to 6", if someone moves their models 3"-8" away from their transport, how do people see that? Better yet, are there people that play this way already? Can't it be used to fudge movement a bit (like moving through things that may not be so easy with the two-part move)? Or is this just as legal as moving 2" and then moving 6"? Personal preference? Shady? What?

i used to be fine with this but then too many people (unknowingly in every case) were deploying too far from the exit. if you just deploy 3-8" away, everyone doing so assumes the people are exiting from the front most (or whichever is most beneficial) exit and measures from there. if you deploy correctly in two separate steps, you'll rarely get everyone coming out of a single exit point of a vehicle unless the squad is quite small (5 man combat squad for instance). if you deploy 10 marines out of a rhino, some are going to be in back by the rear exit simply because they can't fit by the side or vice versa. if you disembark first and then deploy as a separate step, you get a more realistic (and rules correct most importantly) dispersal of the squad in a trailing line instead of the arc from one exit you'd get doing it the other way. .

I would definitely be against just moving the models without first disembarking, as disembarking forces you to place your models around the vehicle, and so the dimensions of the vehicle and surrounding obstacles will have an effect on the subsequent movement.

Not really sure there's a rules issue here... the rules quite clearly require you to place the disembarking models before moving them.

my LGG play you disembark/embark within 2" of the access point first to ensure that the move can be completed

you have to remember there are times where models that cannot be disembark are destroyed

insaniak wrote:I would definitely be against just moving the models without first disembarking, as disembarking forces you to place your models around the vehicle, and so the dimensions of the vehicle and surrounding obstacles will have an effect on the subsequent movement.

Not really sure there's a rules issue here... the rules quite clearly require you to place the disembarking models before moving them.

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about the rules. Many people do a lot of rules shortcuts that may be seen as completely illegal or just shady.

It's not "legal" to use two dice to roll twin-linked, but people do.

I'm not saying I want to use this, but am wondering if people do or what peoples' take is. I've had someone do this against me and I wasn't crazy about it.

In a game with friends I wouldn't be aposed to it, unless a charge was on the line. But in most cases thats not gonna happen after disembarking

Same as taking care of your run moves in the movement phase. it speeds the game up a little bit

The only time I allow it is with Open topped transports.

in the open topped case(unless it is a battle wagon without a kill cannon) the whole unit should be able to disembark across the sides and then move 1-6" without a problem.

If I have models nearby or there are other obstacles in the way/difficult terrain I do require the standard full rules be played out.

I would definitely be opposed to a person making their run move in the movement phase. There are plenty of times when someone wouldn't move their models the first 6" if they knew they were going to roll a 1 on their run, or might move a different direction if they knew they were going to roll a 1 on the run. It also allows a person to move, run and then have some other unit end up where they were before they ran.

I'm also opposed to a person moving 8" out of a transport. It is fairly easy to fit 10 guys beside a rhino, only a portion of the base has to be within 2" of the door and that gives you a really large bubble but some of those guys have to be deployed backwards from the door so when the move forward they are only really 4" away from the door.

Both of these are nothing like a person rolling 2 dice for twin-linked weapons. With both of these you are breaking the rules and get an actual benefit from it. Rolling 2 dice for a twin-linked gun, which I don't actually do, you are breaking the rules and getting no benefit other than speeding up the game.

You can fit a 10 man tac squad or whatever within 2" of a rhinos side door, if even a hairline sliver of a models base is within 2" the model disembarked within 2", look at the picture diagram for disembarkation, there's room.

The other aspect is if you disembark for example not all of them will be able to move the full 8" away as the will have to disembark to the other side of the door or right in front of the door.

Reallisticly maybe 2-3 models will be able move he full 8" in the desired directionand then the others will lose ground due to making spacing between the models unless you want to move them around in b2b contact with each other for my blast and template weapons to mop yo up.

Moving 8 " is actually 'slower' than moving legally.

When disembarking it is 2" from the BACK of the base.

When Moving/Assaulting it is 6" from the FRONT of the base.

So the distance traveled is technically 7.9999999" + your basewidth which is going to be farther than 8".

People don't seem to want to play with the fact that the precise position of each model on the field is actually quite important to how the game plays.

With this in mind, I think it is important to perform a completely legal disembark first, then do the unit's movement. Also, it's important to do the run roll in the shooting phase, after all units have moved, because units actually get in each others' way all the time.

Agreed that the rules state you must disembark before moving, or move before embarking and that it can make a big difference.

In friendly games, I usually let it slide but tell my opponent how it's supposed to be done. More often than not it doesn't make a huge difference for reasons nkelsch mentioned.

I always disembark within 2 inches first then move, but I do feel this is kind of slow. After placing all my guys, I usually remeasure the distance and push any back that are out too far. I get them all in a nice disembarking formation just to immediatly move them again. I am usually disembarking before moving because I want to assault, so I try to be fair while getting as close as possible.

I have seen others do the 8" disembark. I haven't had a problem with them doing it this way. I haven't seen anyone try any unreasonable movement, like placing all of them at the 8" line. They usually place 2 or 3 at the 8" line and have the rest staggered back behind in a loose bunch.

I do shortcut embarking. Measure that everyone is within range of an access point and then say they all embark, without actually spending the time to move them into a bunch first.

The rules are there for a reason.

Follow the rules kthnx!

I used to allow folks to do the 8" dismbark, just to speed up the game. Then some yahoo tried to disembark his squad 8" up the side of a cliff, and I stopped allowing my opponents to do the 8" disembark.
He couldn't understand why I was upset with his attempt to disembark models 8" striaght up into the air. I pointed out that the door of his Rhino was blocked by said cliff, and there'd be no place for the Marines to get out anyways. The flippin' door is blocked by solid rock!

Well... to be a little more accurate, the max distance they could depoly and move is <9", not <8". Remember they don't have to be completely within 2" of the hatch...that base can hang out effectively 1 more inch. Makes a huge difference .

I do think the 8" refers to the "back" end of the base.

Ahh, ok. I missed that.

Adding to the consensus, I would call an 8" disembark rather shady. I wouldn't allow it unless we were in a super hurry. This has never even been considered in my play group though. Just seems like a rules violation.

Play by the rules and, win or lose, you'll know the game was fair.

I very occasionally use an 8" disembark, but would always clear it with my opponent first, on a case by case basis. The only times I do it, though, are when just getting the guys to stay standing upright on the terrain near the vehicle is a problem and/or time consuming. Also, as a guard player who doesn't usually assault, the advantage of scooting a little bit closer isn't as much of an issue.

Didn't read the whole thread but this would DEFINITELY allow for disembarking shenanigans out of a monolith as it's practically impossible to disembark a 20 warrior squad within 2" of the monolith door when being teleported. Heck, you're pretty much riding the line when porting 10 immortals and 1 lord.

It's better to just do the correct disembark and movement. It doesn't save that much time to do otherwise.