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Looking to get into Fantasy and IDK which army to play, my three choices are VC, OK, or DE. This is the dark elf list I want to run and want to know what needs work and what is utter garbage. I need more points in troops so if someone can help me find a way to flip things around for that, that would be great.


2000 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Highborn (1#, 280 pts)
[(#]Dreadlord @ 280 pts (General; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
1 Cold One (Thick-skinned; Causes Fear; Stupid)
1 Crimson Death
1 Black Amulet

Sorceress (1#, 160 pts)
1 Sorceress @ 160 pts (Druchii Sorcery; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Darkstar Cloak
1 0. Power of Darkness

Noble (1#, 154 pts)
1 ~[(^One or more selected options present a potential usage conflict]×~[(#]Master (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 154 pts (Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer; Eternal Hatred)
1 Banner of Hag Graef (Always Strike First)

Warriors (30#, 225 pts)
29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 225 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
1 Lordling (Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 105 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 105 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Corsairs (10#, 125 pts)
9 Black Ark Corsairs @ 125 pts (Slaver; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Repeater Handbow; Light Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Eternal Hatred)
1 Reaver (Slaver; Hand Weapon; Repeater Handbow; Light Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Eternal Hatred)

Cold One Knights (9#, 318 pts)
8 Cold One Knights @ 318 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
1 Dread Knight (Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred)
1 Standard of Slaughter
9 Cold One (Thick-skinned; Causes Fear; Stupid)

Executioners (19#, 258 pts)
18 Har Ganeth Executioners @ 258 pts (Khainite; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Draich; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Killing Blow)
1 Draich-master (Khainite; Draich; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred)

War Hydra (3#, 175 pts)
1 War Hydra @ 175 pts (Fiery Breath; Monsters and Handlers; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Large Target; Regenerate; Scaly Skin)
2 Beastmaster (Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Beastmasters Scourge

Reaper (3#, 100 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (War Machine; Eternal Hatred; Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Reaper (3#, 100 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (War Machine; Eternal Hatred; Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

A few things.

Where does your BSB go?

Dreadlords are only useful if your going for a black dragon. Otherwise a Master can do the same job just as well.

Corsairs should have Xtra hand wep or 2 repeater handbow, not one of each

Executioners are garbage in a list like this, you could drop all of them. They need a BSB but because they are a khanite unit the master cannot be in their unit.

While it has worked for some, I find a large unit of CoK to be a waste unless backed up by a Cauldron of Blood. They die to easily for warmachienes and can't/wont break ranks. I personally would run them in two units of 5 for tactical flexibility with no command (to expensive).

Your General is on a Cold One? Uh oh. I'm no veteran dark elf player from way back when but I have made the mistake and now know that it hurts to have your General turn stupid... because of his mount.

Corsairs, though the models look awesome, don't have the stats to match. They're frail, with only light armour but no shield. A big block of 25 of them might be good, with the sea serpent standard (to give them frenzy, for the extra attack each). Warriors, though they might seem good, are outclassed by their brother models, the repeater crossbowmen. With a 24" range and two shots each, on average you will pump out forty shots per unit before they're charged, and even then when they're charged they can stand and shoot for another twenty shots. Then, once they're in combat, they're fast, and have 10 attacks running at the enemy with re-rolls to hit. All you'd get out of a unit of spearmen is zero ranged capability and 15 attacks back at someone (if they get charged).

Dark Riders are also priceless. Being able to reform as many times as you like before shooting twice each is incredible, and an 18" march can get them close to bothering warmachines. You can also use Harpies like this, or as flying hard cover ( -2 to hit when shooting at things behind them). Use them to screen your spearmen or more squishy targets.

Seeing as you seem to like the Cold One Knights, I wouldn't get rid of them entirely - they make good scary Heavy Cavalry units that can get some good, hard flank charges in. With a 2+ save and T3, only concentrated fire or massed small-arms fire should get rid of them.

Your Hydra is wonderful. Love it. Use it. Exploit the fact that it causes Terror, the beastmasters can't be killed, and that you can pump out 7 attacks at S5 in close combat, followed by a thunderstomp (D6 S5 auto-hits). It also has a wonderful breath weapon to be used either on blocks of infantry or in close combat against a high-WS opponent.

Executioners look incredible, yes, but unfortunately they got nerfed to all hell with the new initiative based combat (because Great Weapons have ASL). They first have to weather attacks coming at them, and THEN, if any are left, they can strike back. They're simply too expensive to send out like this: honestly, you're better off with Black Guard.

Black Guard are nice (I'd reccomend popping your BSB Master or your Dreadlord into this unit). Run it 7x2, to maximise attacks. They have 2 attacks each at WS5, S4 and I6. They're also Immune to Psychology and re-roll all their missed attacks. The Tower Master can carry a magic item... I reccomend either the Ring of Hotek, or Crimson Death. The Black Guard are squishy, but if you keep them out of harm's way in shooting, they should 'make their points back'.

The kind of list I think you'd do well with would be something like this:

2000 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Highborn (1#, 215 pts)
1 [(#]Dreadlord @ 215 pts (General; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
1 Crimson Death
1 Pendant of Khaeleth

Noble (1#, 154 pts)
1 [(#]Master (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 154 pts (Hand Weapon; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer; Eternal Hatred)
1 Standard of Slaughter

Sorceress (1#, 160 pts)
1 Sorceress @ 160 pts (Druchii Sorcery; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Darkstar Cloak
1 0. Power of Darkness

War Hydra (3#, 175 pts)
1 War Hydra @ 175 pts (Fiery Breath; Monsters and Handlers; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Large Target; Regenerate; Scaly Skin)
2 Beastmaster (Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Beastmasters Scourge

Reaper (3#, 100 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (War Machine; Eternal Hatred; Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Reaper (3#, 100 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (War Machine; Eternal Hatred; Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders @ 110 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred; Fast Cavalry)
5 Dark Steed

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Warriors (20#, 149 pts)
20 Dark Elf Warriors @ 149 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)

Cold One Knights (5#, 143 pts)
5 Cold One Knights @ 143 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
5 Cold One (Thick-skinned; Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stupid)

Black Guard (13#, 229 pts)
12 Black Guard @ 229 pts (Warrior Elite; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn)
1 Tower Master (Warrior Elite; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Immune to Psychology)
1 Banner of Murder

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders @ 110 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred; Fast Cavalry)
5 Dark Steed

Harpy Coven (5#, 55 pts)
5 Harpies @ 55 pts (Beasts; Flyer)


Until you explain what kind of list you'd like to run with (Shooty, magic-heavy or combat), this is the middle-ground list I try to run when I play 2k.

Oh, and welcome to Fantasy.

Im trying to runa little balance of everything with this list while not being totally dominated on the field. We have several dark elf players here and I was trying to run something a little different than they do with this list.

The thing with the black Guard is just that, Everyone runs them here and boasts "how unbeatable" they are. I thought I could put the bsb with the ASF banner in with them and a unit of ASF great weapon would seem devistating but im new to fantasy so idk.

Also love the idea of a khainite list as no one deos that areound here. Ill mix some things around here afer breakfast lol

Ah, in that case, perhaps this would suit your more Khainite needs?

2000 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 100 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders @ 110 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred; Fast Cavalry)
5 Dark Steed

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders @ 110 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred; Fast Cavalry)
5 Dark Steed

Hag Queen (4#, 200 pts)
1 Death Hag @ 200 pts (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred; Extra Attack; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)
1 Cauldron of Blood (Altar of Khaine; Attendents; Blessings of Khaine; Khainite; War Machine; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Frenzy; Magic Resistance (1); Poisoned Attacks)
2 Hags (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred; Extra Attack; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)

Hag Queen (1#, 180 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 180 pts (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer; Eternal Hatred; Extra Attack; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)
1 Dance of Doom
1 Banner of Hag Graef (Always Strike First)

High Sorceress (2#, 375 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress @ 375 pts (Druchii Sorcery; General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Dark Pegasus (Flyer)
1 Gold Sigil Sword
1 Tome of Furion
1 Pendant of Khaeleth
1 0. Power of Darkness

War Hydra (3#, 175 pts)
1 War Hydra @ 175 pts (Fiery Breath; Monsters and Handlers; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Large Target; Regenerate; Scaly Skin)
2 Beastmaster (Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Beastmasters Scourge

Reaper (3#, 100 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (War Machine; Eternal Hatred; Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred)

Executioners (13#, 199 pts)
13 Har Ganeth Executioners @ 199 pts (Always Strikes Last; Khainite; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Draich; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Killing Blow)
1 Tullaris
1 Blade of Har Ganeth
1 Banner of Murder

Witch Elves (25#, 250 pts)
25 Witch Elves of Khaine @ 250 pts (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred; Extra Attack; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)

It's got Witch Elves, A Supreme Sorceress, Executioners... it's kinda Khainite.

Wow I really like that list! but how will it play? where do I put the characters? What is the general strategy?

The Supreme Sorcreress is fine enough on her own to fly around and cause havoc with her magic. The Death Hag with the Cauldron of Blood is meant to buff your units (it's also T10 with the latest Errata).

The Death Hag with the BSB and Banner of Hag Graef will go with the Executioners: that will cancel out their ASL with ASF, making them strike at initiative. The Witch Elves are squishy, but they have a zillion attacks to smack people around with when they finally get into combat (I6 to boot).

Everything else, I believe I've already explained.

Great thanks Ill give it a shot and let you know how it goes. I have all these models except the cauldron and witches, so this works pretty well actually.

Dark Riders with Xbows cost way too many points for their sucky stats.

220 points for just 20 S3 shots with 5+ or 6+ to hit AND 6+ to scratch a war machine.

If someone was gonna buy dark riders for some reason, might as well buy 13 without bows so that they stand a chance of maybe getting to a machine and winning a combat.
Either way, 2 squads of dark riders with their sucky T3 5+ save cost as much as like 2-3 cannons or bolt throwers. All it takes is one grapeshot or multi-arrow barrage to take that 5 DR squad to like 1-2 guys who accomplished nothing.

If opponent deploys 0 squads to protect his war machines, you might get lucky and earn back the DR cost. But all it takes is 1 small squad of archers or combat troops and the DR were a bad idea.

They're so soft and so expensive that shooting the DR dead is pretty much always a good idea. 220 points wasted for a slight distraction is not worth it.

As for corsairs, the complaint about their armor is 100% wrong. They don't have "Light armor" because they get +1 armor save from their cloak. So they're instantly heavy armor AND they get +1 extra save to shooting/magic missiles for 4+ save.

Better armor than BG, Executioners, WE, Warriors, etc.

My bad. I forgot about the SDC.

All I can say about your complaints about the Dark Riders is that mine have provided vital support. They work for some people, but not so well for others. My Dark Riders have sniped characters on foot, or mounted and war machines. They are also good for keeping up with enemy fast cavalry, and generally harrassing them.

Dunno - if you try them out and they suck, try something else. good luck.

SDasher wrote:My bad. I forgot about the SDC.

All I can say about your complaints about the Dark Riders is that mine have provided vital support. They work for some people, but not so well for others. My Dark Riders have sniped characters on foot, or mounted and war machines. They are also good for keeping up with enemy fast cavalry, and generally harrassing them.

Dunno - if you try them out and they suck, try something else. good luck.

For 220 points (compared to 175 for a hydra) they Have to provide vital support or they're a waste.

I've never seen anyone use a character on foot who can be sniped. They keep them in units where DR can't do anything.

Shooting at a war machine you'll usually need 6+ to hit 6+ to wound. 1 in 36 shots fired do anything. So 72 shots to do 2 wounds. When each puts out a measly 10 shots per turn. If an unharassed Dark Rider 5man squad spends the entire game shooting at a 100 point bolt thrower (when the DR cost 117 for 5) they Might after 5-6 turns bring it down. On the first turn, a volley from either RBT would kill 2.7 DR making them useless. On the first turn, a volley from 10 RXB kills 2.8 dark riders at long range, again rendering them completely useless.

Enemy archers will be able to do a free quick-reform to face the Dark Riders and then shoot them to pieces.

The standard DE army has no problem whatsoever with fast cavalry. RXBs are 10 times more effective against enemy fast cavalry than DR. Who would win in a fight? 10-11 RXB or 5 DR? Every single time, the RXB. Anything which can't kill 5 T3 DR will be unable to kill 10-11 T3 Xbows. Xbows put out twice as many shots as DR and take twice as many shots before they die.

RXB with 5" move + 24" shooting already have a wide threat area, so their 20-22 shots vs. 10 from DR is just too many dice not to buy.

TheBloodGod wrote:

SDasher wrote:My bad. I forgot about the SDC.

All I can say about your complaints about the Dark Riders is that mine have provided vital support. They work for some people, but not so well for others. My Dark Riders have sniped characters on foot, or mounted and war machines. They are also good for keeping up with enemy fast cavalry, and generally harrassing them.

Dunno - if you try them out and they suck, try something else. good luck.

For 220 points (compared to 175 for a hydra) they Have to provide vital support or they're a waste.

I've never seen anyone use a character on foot who can be sniped. They keep them in units where DR can't do anything.

Shooting at a war machine you'll usually need 6+ to hit 6+ to wound. 1 in 36 shots fired do anything. So 72 shots to do 2 wounds. When each puts out a measly 10 shots per turn. If an unharassed Dark Rider 5man squad spends the entire game shooting at a 100 point bolt thrower (when the DR cost 117 for 5) they Might after 5-6 turns bring it down. On the first turn, a volley from either RBT would kill 2.7 DR making them useless. On the first turn, a volley from 10 RXB kills 2.8 dark riders at long range, again rendering them completely useless.

Enemy archers will be able to do a free quick-reform to face the Dark Riders and then shoot them to pieces.

The standard DE army has no problem whatsoever with fast cavalry. RXBs are 10 times more effective against enemy fast cavalry than DR. Who would win in a fight? 10-11 RXB or 5 DR? Every single time, the RXB. Anything which can't kill 5 T3 DR will be unable to kill 10-11 T3 Xbows. Xbows put out twice as many shots as DR and take twice as many shots before they die.

RXB with 5" move + 24" shooting already have a wide threat area, so their 20-22 shots vs. 10 from DR is just too many dice not to buy.

Dude. I'm not trying to argue with you over this, really.

In my experience, the Dark Riders have been useful.

Your two cents are quite true statistically, and I'm not trying to dispute that at all Perhaps they may be more useful than DR, but I like playing with them more than I do Xbows; after all, what fun is the game if you don't enjoy variety in your army?

Why are you shooting the warmachienes anyway? As long as it isn't a hellcannon just charge it. You still fight the crew after all.

Your three options for warmachiene hunters are: Shades, Harpies and Dark Riders.

All three got hit with the nerf bat in this addition. Shades with the new skirmisher rules, harpies with the change to fly, and DR because now their shots cant hit crew.

All three cost about the same when kitted out (going from memory) 5 Dark Riders, 10 Harpies, 8 Shades all point out to in the 90-110 range.

Your best bet imo is to go with a combination of all three. (experiment with them until you find what works for you).

Benifits:

DR - fast cav vanguard move plus regular movement has them in range for a turn 2 charge easily. Plus the count towards the minimum core requirement
Harpies - dirt cheap and fly, they should be in charge range turn 2 as well. You get 10 compared to the 5 dark riders, however they ado not have the survivability that DR can have. Since they are cheap you can afford to loose a unit or two of them. In my experience my opponents have ignored them initially and shot at more valuable targets.
Shades - They can set up 12 inches away from a warmachine. Havent experimented with them in 8th edition yet.

All I can say about your complaints about the Dark Riders is that mine have provided vital support

No need to be worried. Your experiences are very accurate. Dark Riders have a vital role in Dark Elf armies just like they did in 7th edition. If anything they have somewhat improved because of the vanguard move. They hunt war machines better than Harpies do, provide additional missile saturation and assist units like Hydras with charges.

Your best bet imo is to go with a combination of all three. (experiment with them until you find what works for you).

I agree with you as well. I've chosen to go with three units of Shades and two of DR. Don't forget the xhws on them. Six Shades with xhws cause 5,3 wounds to T3 war machine crews and 3,55 to T4 crews.