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So, I've recently put together this list based upon what I actually have the (unassembled) miniatures for, not particularly on a 'competitive' build but trying to stay fluffy and have something to paint and model towards.

The list is deliberately built without Heavy Support due to a prior agreement with another player that suits me just fine.

The flaws I already know about are a lack of long-range anti-armour, but please feel free to point out more. I will listen to your advice even if I don't follow it

CCS
Standard
Astropath
3xGL
110pts

'Militia Platoon'

PCS
4xflamer
Meltabombs
55pts

Chimera
HHF
55pts

Infantry Squad
GL
55pts

Infantry Squad
GL
55pts

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x AC
75pts

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Mortar
60pts

'Night Watch Platoon'

PCS
Al'Rahem analogue (Warden Cathcart)
4xMeltagun
140

Infantry Squad
Commissar
GL
2xPW
Meltabombs
115pts

Infantry Squad
GL
PW
Meltabombs
70pts

SWS
3x Flamer
50pts

Penal Legion Squad
80pts

Rough Rider Squadron
2 more RR's
Meltabombs
80pts

1000 Points.

So, me hearties, please dissect. I've got a lack of firepower, a lot of manpower, and will probably be eaten alive by Land Raider-happy marine players. I mainly hope to be facing Orks and Tyranids, but might well take on some MEQ's for a laugh sometime. My main plan is to not all die, and as a result win, since I can be fairly confident of taking out any non-LR transports and then whomping the contents, whatever it may be, with a billion lasguns. Well, 51 lasguns, 7 flamers and 5 GL's.

I would very much appreciate anyone who could recommend an alternative build which doesn't require any more vehicles or heavy weapons than the above, still includes RR's, but is slightly more competitive.

maybe swap some of those GLs out for Flamers?

it's actually not as terrible as you think. My only problem with it is that there is some waste that could be cleared away in order to put more points into your strengths.

Throw away your autocannons and mortars and the strange, lone chimera for 190 points. Turn that into a commissar for the stay-at-home blob (35), Upgrading the flamer squad coming out with al'rahem to plasma (30), the useless grenade launchers in the CCS to melta (15), and another squad of rough riders with a meltabomb (110)

You lose a few worthless heavy weapons for some serious weapons upgrades and another squad of your beloved rough riders.

I'd agree wholeheartedly with ailaros' recos. At 1000 pts the lasguns + all your other weapons will handle enemy infantry just fine (don't need the mortars) and the plasma, melta, and RR's will kill more armour than the AC's (albeit a shorter range). You do lose a couple scoring units, but you would still have 7.

The reason the chim is strange is because it's lone - might as well make all of the enemy's anti-vehic ineffective.

Your list has no long-range AT, but that's ok as you'll have lots of ways to kill them close. You've got no vehics, so you'll need to move anyways - at some point anyways, they'll often be coming to you.

I like it. Fluffy and fighty, with 65 scoring squishies.

yeah.

Guard are simple:

Take lots of tanks
or none.

It's a nice idea for the RR. they can provide excelent fast attack to contrast your army.

Me, for example, I use 2 squads of assault marines [in 3,000] against gunlines. that really mixes up the whole 'war of attrition' which is much more difficult as a SM player [I do WOA.]

Thankee gentlemen for the responses.

@ Samus - possibly a good idea, but I quite like having the mobility and range of the GL's I've got. I've deliberately concentrated my flamers into two squads, so they can (hopefully) annihilate any infantry that gets too close in one fell swoop.

@ Ailaros - thanks for the suggestions. I'll tell you my reasoning behind the heavy weapons and chim, and you can tell me what you think.

Firstly, with a Napoleonic theme to my army, a little bit of 'artillery' is normal, and I have/plan to have converted the above weaponry, since it looks damn fine on a wheeled carriage.

Second, since lack of mobility is my weak-point, the two HW squads are ways to reduce my opponents' mobility from turn one. Autocannons with BiD orders can pop a transport in my opponent's deployment zone, forcing him to split his forces. They are also a threat to Monstrous Creatures. Mortars, likewise, can damage and pin enemy infantry at range without suffering return fire.

Third, I don't have any more RR's in my collection and can't afford to buy any more :(

Having Plasma in a SWS is an interesting idea, something I've never done before since I personally don't have a strong taste for it in my guard army (argh! gets hot and bs3)

Also, you'd be surprised how useful those GL's in the CCS can be. Staying mobile with a 24" range and a BiD re-roll to wound, they're medium-effective against MC's.

The lone chimera, well, I plan to keep it generally out of the way until my counter-attack comes. 4 flamers and the RR's should put paid to the first wave of assaulters, and if nothing else it might draw some fire thereafter. I wanted some kind of rapid-response unit in my deployment zone other than the RR's.

I'm not really tempted to blob up in my deployment zone either, I prefer having a range of scoring units I can shuffle around at will, to re-take or contest objectives.

Please counter my arguments if you wish.

@ Murdog - thanks, I'm going to see how I fare but might have to save up for some more RR's to fit with the ailaros system (c). My love for GL's is that I can stay mobile and still have a 24" anti-transport or anti-infantry weapon.

@ Solon - I suppose dropping the chim could give me another SWS, and with a bit of points-shuffling could have some more meltas in my deployment zone. but I've found the lack of mobility of my foot troops makes too much reliance on short-range firepower a little bit dangerous. A lot of units will charge your SWS before you get a chance to fire.

Thanks all, keep it coming!

I actually reckon (with my superior reckoning ) that that is a good list. I just think you need a Leman Russ in there. Thats roughly the army list im going for to attach to my battleforce which will come in about a week. But most space marines players aren't rev'heads so i would worry about the space marine having tanks equivalent to a baneblade (what was that called ? I forgot).

Have faith in the Emperor and you will win all your friendly club games

Hi Roderick

last time I saw your Napoleonic PDF they had "old faithful" the millenia old LRBT, guess the old girls been retired.

I can't really add much that hasn't already been mentioned.

I agree that a single chimera doesn't make a lot of sense, but understand your reasons for keeping it, i'm sure Ailaros will mention this (in a lot more detail and probably in a much better manner than I can) but the chimera doesn't add that much mobility. Your troops can run and with orders they can run better.

I also understand your reasons for not wanting to take plasma, i've never been very luck with it myself.

I don't really get the Penal legion, i've never used them but have never heard anyone say anything good about them and they always seemed a little bit ropey imo. If you can't replace them with more rough riders may be think about bulking up "Nightwatch Platoon" a little.

This is the 1000 point all infantry list I came up with, i've not play tested so can't honestly say if it works or not. You can easily replace the LasCannon squads with rough riders.

CCS
4 melta
Astropath

PCS
4 flamers

3 Inf Squad
3 Grenade Launcher
3 Autocannon
Commisar

2 Inf Squad
2 Lasc

3 mortars

PCS
Al'rahem
4 melta

3 Inf Squad
3 Grenade Launcher
3 Power Sword
3 Melta Bomb
Commissar
Power Sword

Once again big fan of the napoleonic PDF idea and I hope this helps.

p.s.

you got any picts of your army?

Captain Roderick wrote:Firstly, with a Napoleonic theme to my army, a little bit of 'artillery' is normal, and I have/plan to have converted the above weaponry, since it looks damn fine on a wheeled carriage.

Yes, artillery is grand. However, why was Napoleonic artillery good? It was good because it had an absurd range in solid shot mode, and because it was woefully effective against groups of infantry in canister fire. Mortars and autocannon have neither absurd range, or are woefully effective. Therefore, if you really want a weapon that fills the role that Napoleon loved so dearly for his own guns, you need something different.

Namely, you need guard artillery. A basilisk has both absurd range and does woeful damage to things clumped together out in the open. The only caveat, of course, is how to model it. It's doable (a 4 horse drawn wagon with a cannon in the cart), but a bit convoluted, and you'd need to buy more horses.

Otherwise, if you can't do it right, I wouldn't bother doing it at all.

Captain Roderick wrote:Second, since lack of mobility is my weak-point, the two HW squads are ways to reduce my opponents' mobility from turn one. Autocannons with BiD orders can pop a transport in my opponent's deployment zone, forcing him to split his forces. They are also a threat to Monstrous Creatures. Mortars, likewise, can damage and pin enemy infantry at range without suffering return fire.

If lack of mobility is a problem you think you have, then the best solution is to add more mobility to your own list, rather than vainly attempting to stop his with a few autocannons.

Because "popping a transport in your opponent's deployment zone" is NOT going to force him to split his forces apart. It's just going to be an obnoxious casualty in the middle of his transport rush. Plus, autocannons are really only effective against really light transports, and not particularly effective against anything that moves fast or is popping smoke. The fact that you're taking all of 3 of them only reinforces their crapulance.

Captain Roderick wrote:Third, I don't have any more RR's in my collection and can't afford to buy any more :(

Now this is a real shame, as your list would greatly benefit from more.

Captain Roderick wrote:Having Plasma in a SWS is an interesting idea, something I've never done before since I personally don't have a strong taste for it in my guard army (argh! gets hot and bs3)

Look at the damage they do to your opponent first. Remember, Al'Rahem has "bring it down", which means you're showing up off the side of the board unexpectedly with 6 or 7 plasma gun hits on something.

Captain Roderick wrote:Also, you'd be surprised how useful those GL's in the CCS can be. Staying mobile with a 24" range and a BiD re-roll to wound, they're medium-effective against MC's.

but you'd be surprised on how useful those GLs would be if they were plasma. BiD plasma > BiD grenade launchers.

Heck even meltaguns would be a big improvement. Really, it's a waste of good potential firepower to give GL's (or flamers for that matter) to a CCS.

Captain Roderick wrote:The lone chimera, well, I plan to keep it generally out of the way until my counter-attack comes. 4 flamers and the RR's should put paid to the first wave of assaulters, and if nothing else it might draw some fire thereafter. I wanted some kind of rapid-response unit in my deployment zone other than the RR's.

That single chimera will die so fast it will make your head spin.

Also, you don't need vehicles to counter-attack. I do it on foot all the time just fine.

If you want more responders in your deployment zone, then turn your stay-at-home infantry squad into a power blob.

Captain Roderick wrote:I'm not really tempted to blob up in my deployment zone either, I prefer having a range of scoring units I can shuffle around at will, to re-take or contest objectives.

Remember, you don't HAVE to blob up every game if you don't want to.

That said, a 10-man infantry squad without a commissar (also, in your case, without a standard), is a recipe for a dead guard squad the first time they start taking casualties. Ld8 isn't great, and when you make that test with heavy negative modifiers because the squad isn't stubborn, be prepared for them to instantly evaporate when your opponent starts thinking about close combat.

If you're unable to get more horses, I'd still recommend dropping what I recommended dropping. Instead, I'd use the roughly 110 points to get more infantry/SWSs, or a basilisk or something.

Hey all, quick response as I'm low on time this morning.

@ Cadichan - danke, you'd be suprised how many people like throwing Land Raiders into 1k lists though. They draw a lot of fire, and can easily wander around all game getting on people's wicks.

@ Spankhammer - Yes indeed, but Old Faithful is in the yard for repairs just now, since I agreed to go with no Heavy Support for this list. She's waiting in the wings for a chance to blatter some foes with inaccurate battlecannon and scarily accurate lascannon fire

@ Ailaros - proper Guard artillery is something I'm going to have to do without for a while, as I just can't make it fit with my feel. One tank in my list I can cope with, but having proper Guard artillery when everything of the napoleonic era is still on wheeled carriages just doesn't gel.

In general, the penal legion are there for two reasons: their scout ability, which lets me piss people off in DoW setup by proscribing their deployment zone, their stubbornness for tarpitting, and their chance of rending attacks.

I am however now contemplating a list which removes them, puts a commissar and some power weapons in the militia platoon, and uses them for the same method - getting up in people's faces and irritating them a lot, preventing them from approaching my DZ and HQ units.

I'm still not sold on losing my HWS's entirely, because they have great synergy with a CCS, and I love my gun carriages.

More RR's are definitely something for down the road though

I'll try and give y'all more later, in the meantime, thanks!

Sorry for the delay gents,
I've been moving house and playing necromunda this week, but am hopefully playing some 40k next week with Mean Green Stompa. We've agreed a 750pt game without Heavy Support, so I'm going for the following list - feedback always appreciated, although I want to keep it friendly so probably won't implement any changes before the next game unless it's flavoursome

P.S. I'm keeping the Autocannons in because they look good.


CCS
4xGL
70pts

PBS
5 extra psykers
110pts

PCS
4xflamer
50pts


Infantry Squad
Commissar
GL
2xPW
Meltabombs
115pts

Infantry Squad
flamer
Meltabombs
60pts

Infantry Squad
Flamer
55pts

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x AC
75pts

SWS
2x Flamer
Demo Charge
65pts

Penal Legion Squad
80pts

Rough Rider Squadron
1 more RR
Meltabombs
70pts

750 points.

I dropped the lone chimera in general, and the other version of this list (with heavy support allowed) will swap the PBS and SWS for a LRBT w/hull Lascannon. I'll blob two of the infantry squads, and keep the other separate and mobile, so that way my blob and Penal squad can tarpit effectively while I've still got plenty of stuff available to kill what gets past them.

What d'yall think? apart from the Autocannons and GL's obviously Ailaros....

This isn't too shabby, really. Ideally you'd drop more stuff for rough riders, but as you cant', this is probably close to as best as you're going to do with both the models you have and the theme you want.

Cheers man. I have found my source for my next unit of RR's, which is a warlord games scots lancers boxed set. check 'em out:
http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/scots-lancers-3660-p.asp

Are you sure those are the right scale? They look kind of small.

yeah, it's just the in-house painters for Warlord are rubbish so they never do closeups. I'm going to take a proper look at 'em before I buy anyway, since the FLGS is very F

I saw those models at a local games fair the other week and have to admitt I thought about converting them.

I didn't see them out of the box though so let us know if they are any good.