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Before I begin I want to point out that my best mate is a copper and will be best man at my wedding next year. I have always had a lot of respect for the boys in blue and have, for the most part, only positive experiences when dealing with them.
However, have a look at the following link, watch the vid and read the story.
Now ask your self, regardless of what had or had not happened in the lead up to the incident, the guy on the floor was clearly already subdued, so the violence was unneccesary. What would have happened if the the guy getting punched was a copper and the two guys holding him down civvies? Would they have been released without charge I wonder? Whilst they have not hit the guy themselves they have happily held him down whilst their mate lays into him without oven remotely trying to stop him.
I appreciate that the Police have a difficult and stressful job to do but come on, surely they have to obey by the same rules as the rest of us.
Mr. Aspinall was the former soldier (what the hell is an 'ex-soldier' anyway?), and the charges against him were dropped on appeal. Mr. Lightfoot, the officer in question, was convicted and will be sentenced the 1st of September. What problem are you seeing exactly? Perhaps you should read the story one more time.
The BBC wrote:GMP's Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan said Lightfoot's conduct "fell well below the standard" expected by the force.
He added: "His actions in no way reflect the committed and professional attitude shown by the vast majority of our special constables, who are highly trained in the best ways to safely detain prisoners.
"We are even more disappointed that he knowingly lied before a criminal court."
Mr Shewan said GMP's Professional Standards Branch carried out an investigation into the incident and will decide what disciplinary action to take against the three officers involved in the case.
Lightfoot will be sentenced on 1 September and the "overwhelming likelihood" is that he will be sent to jail, the judge said.
Sounds like a rather appropriate resolution, and this officer doesn't need years in prison, months will more than do. He didn't curb-stomp the guy while tasing him periodically. It sounds like he faces the full force of the law.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/02 17:04:58
I think your confused Wrex, what he means is that if three civvies did that to a copper they would be in deep deep do do.
I feel more strongly than you do Squil, im a 30 year old man with no criminal convictions but i genuinelly dislike police officers.
Obviously this is an en-masse generalisation, and i dont HATE all coppers. If i meet one via a friend or whatever i will happily socialise with them, and my brothers mate is a copper who i have drank with on several occasions, also im sure plenty of ex marines end up as coppers, but if i am generalising i really do dislike Policemen.
I think they are poorly trained, staggeringly unprofessional and terribly hypocritical. Judging by the aftermath of Raul Moats actions i think its fair to say a very sizeable portion of the British public agrees with me.
Its rather simple, for far too long coppers have been getting away with many of the things that the civilians they are apparently paid to serve and protect do not, and this makes people very angry, like most cases of hypocricy generally do.
As i said, i know its not all of them, but its easily enough for me to heartily say i have no interest in assisting or ever speaking with a police officer. Granted im slightly biased about this as i recall my father getting arrested while on a stag do in Newcastle and he punched a copper during a melee. About 4 hours later when he was on the cot in his cell, the door opened and two of them (one who was punched by him earlier) came in with their truncheons and fully beat the gak out of him. He was only charged with drunk and disorderly and they dropped the charges of assaulting an officer if he didnt mention his black eye, broken nose and severly bashed up head.
That was in 1986 though, and my dad seemed to think it was a good deal at the time...
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Yep Matty has it bang on Wrex, my problem isn't with the chap doing the punching as he has been dealt with. My problem is that his two cronnies who effectively did nothing, and some may say aided there colleague whilst he laid into the chap on the ground.
The fact that the guy was an ex-soldier (that means someone who was in the Army but has since left) is pretty much irrelevant. He may well have underlying mental issues but he acted like a tool and the Police got called to deal.
Where my anger stems from is that if two ordinary blokes were to hold down a copper, who had stepped over the line, whilst their mate gave him a beating then I am fairly sure that they would get more than a stern talking to.
I have a long list of incidents on which my hatred of the police is based. In my experience they are almost universally cowardly; only willing to exercise force on those they believe to be willing to go without incident.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
ITT there are millions of police officers in the world and it's a high stress low pay job. Thanks to the advent of the internet it's easy to find examples of poor behavior online and then complain about the police after stating "I have the utmost respect for their work".
ITT conflicting gak.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:I have a long list of incidents on which my hatred of the police is based. In my experience they are almost universally cowardly; only willing to exercise force on those they believe to be willing to go without incident.
Story time!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/02 19:07:59
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
If two ordinary folks were to hold down a police officer, who's actively on duty at the time, while their mate beat the crap out of him--you'd be charged with assault on a police officer.
Because that's what you did. No ifs, ands, or buts.
If he weren't on duty, depending on the circumstances(if he was in uniform or not, was he responding to a situation or identified himself as an officer of the law, etc) it would be simple assault.
Not sure what "difference" you're talking about, at all.
dogma wrote:I have a long list of incidents on which my hatred of the police is based. In my experience they are almost universally cowardly; only willing to exercise force on those they believe to be willing to go without incident.
You and I appear to have had very different experiences regarding the law. I have never, ever, benefited from arguing with a cop. I've certainly seen people that approach officers with disdain get a hard time because of it. It isn't fair, but I am not entirely sure that a cops job is to be fair, just to be lawful. When a cop punches a guy in the shoulder half a dozen times, while said individual is being restrained by about 600 pounds of bacon, they were quite flatly in the wrong.
Now, I think there is definitely something to be said for people with little power being substantially targeted over those with power, in terms of enforcing the law. When I see two cars driving down the street, but the one whose paint is chipping a bit gets pulled over... every freaking time, I do get angry. It is unfair to shell out punishment to those who have the least ability to cope with it, but again, I really don't know if a cops job has all that much to do with being fair. If they have an easier time acting like what could be abstractly considered bullying (unless it is the TFG cop, yes, there are quite a few) in order to enforce the law, it does make sense for them to do so.
I don't want cops picking on people with little or no ability to defend themselves, I want them to enforce the law evenly. The actual extent of that possibility, is definitely a rather hazy conversation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/02 21:16:08
I think I have a way of attracting TFG cops. Just to vaguely reference my experiences: my ex-gf was hit by a police car (in someone's front yard), I was detained for 2 days because a cop thought I was smoking at 16 (it was cold out), and I had a cop tell me that I had to move my car (when I was clearly drunk and not misparked) in order to force a DUI.
I hate cops.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I would have had a hard time taking that cop seriously, sometimes it helps to just play dumb. Much of what an officer has to do on a daily basis, is present the image their department has determined necessary. There is probably way more politics involved in police work, as compared to the majority of jobs, from the bottom to the top. They are many times the face of a cities authority, and their reflection of the sentiment of local governments can often be easy enough to conclude.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
I would have had a hard time taking that cop seriously, sometimes it helps to just play dumb. Much of what an officer has to do on a daily basis, is present the image their department has determined necessary. There is probably way more politics involved in police work, as compared to the majority of jobs, from the bottom to the top. They are many times the face of a cities authority, and their reflection of the sentiment of local governments can often be easy enough to conclude.
Cheer up though.
I don't watch Cops, but I'd sure as hell watch this...
I honestly would not expect a policeman to be treated as harshly as a civilian for this offence, that is correct. I don't think it is right, but it is understandable considering the line of work that they are in and the fact that no one can really nay-say a policeman other than... solid video evidence.
Having taken a couple of police claims to court and discovering the slovenly apathy if the average police prosecutor, I am not really so concerned about 'TFG' cops, as dogma has described, but the worst I've had was a policeman telling me in plain English that he could not read my license plate because it was 'obscured'. I took his ticket, then walked to his partner (who was at the police car) and asked him to read out my license plate, which he did easily and without error. Several months later, the judge took about half a second to shake her head and quash the charge. There's a reason they have cameras on the front of their cars... they can't be trusted!
Who cares? The guy was obviously being an ass hat. Three officers, Middle of the Road and Just kicked out of a club. Obviously getting a little too rowdy and choosing not to cooperate. The end result isn't ideal, but who says he didn't deserve it anyway?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/03 02:28:19
Generally speaking, the ones who hate cops the most are folks that are doing crud they shouldn't be doing in the first place.
That said, it's hard being a cop. You get lied to ever single day. If you haven't lived through that, it might be a bit harder to understand why they sometimes act on the side of being a dick.
That said, power also corrupts. No doubt that things are overlooked by otherwise good cops because of brotherhood or other notions. It's hard to be a good cop.
I'm not like them, but I can pretend.
Observations on complex unit wound allocation: If you're feeling screwed, your opponent is probably doing it right.
Yep, this guy was right to be convicted. He should be given the average punishment that anyone who convicts assualt gets. No more no less, if he gets more than average for only punching a guy 8 times, then its another standard being doubled.
For the most part I like cops. The locals are idiots and d-bags, but the state troopers are generally a lot nicer.
I will give the locals some credit though, they deal with a lot of tourists during the spring and summer. People on vacation, speeding in convertables, getting s-faced drunk...
Undercover cops are a different beast entirely though. When the house across the street was busted, there was about 15 dissheveled people in front of the house, each of them was an undercover cop. The house they busted had drugs in it and a few weapons. I kind of like cops.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About the brotherhood thing; its an excellent point.
You never know if you'll need the other guy to save your keister down the line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/03 05:27:10
1-UP wrote:That said, power also corrupts. No doubt that things are overlooked by otherwise good cops because of brotherhood or other notions. It's hard to be a good cop.
It is hard to be a good cop. Which is why it is no surprise that many fall below the mark (either in small ways like using their power to act like a douche, or big ways like corruption and assaulting people they've arrested). And it is because it is hard, and because the consequences for bad policing can be so severe, we need to judge policemen by a higher standard than we judge our civilians.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Colossal Donkey wrote:. The end result isn't ideal, but who says he didn't deserve it anyway?
The law.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Arctik_Firangi wrote:He almost certainly deserved to be restrained, but no one really deserves to be held down and beaten by police. That's what prison is for.
Wait so in your prisons, inmates are held down and beaten by police?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
5000pts
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<-- Finally, level 666! 
Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" 