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I've been playing blood angels since the new codex came out, and even though Mephiston looked pretty good to start, I never played him in a game and I think I'm much happier using my Librarian in terminator armor with a storm shield, upgraded to an epistolary with Unleash Rage and Might of Heroes. I know Mephiston's characteristics are high, but being as he's stuck as a lone model and can't join a unit, he's not an eternal warrior, and has no invul save, isn't he kind of like a fish flopping out of water? Give me a librarian in a unit of terminators storming out of a landraider any day. Actually, I'm honestly not sold on special characters at all in the BA codex and generally only run the single librarian as an HQ (Lemartes SOMETIMES gets run in the Death Company). Don't get me wrong, I love special characters-Skulltaker and Kairos are pure win in my book-just BA characters seem a bit too highly priced for what you get, IMO

He's basically a loyalist daemon prince that you can hide behind stuff on account of not being a monstrous creature. I mean he's nasty as hell in combat and it's hard to drop him with small arms fire, but his designed weakness has been high strength low AP weapons since the BA WD codex in 4th. He's good but not unbeatable is what I'm trying to say. Special characters often are a bit overpriced for what you get, and have pretty much always been as such.

Yea, but he just seems wickedly expensive for what you get. 200 maybe, but 250? My other libby is far more powerful in combat (and more survivable). So he just doesn't do anything for me

Yeah, well before you complain about price, go look at the C: SM HQs. Marneus Calgar is 250, sicarius is 200, crappy ol tigurious is 230! jeebus.

What kind of libby do you run? I'm not saying your libby isn't more points effective than mephiston, but other than a swarmlord I'm not sure there are too many characters that can take him solo (and even the swarmlord can (though very unlikely) be killed by him). Also you have to consider the force he is rolling with. It usually takes a considerable amount of fire to bring mephiston down, and in my experience by the time opponents shoot him down with their army, the real meat of their army is in their deployment zone.

Unless you have extremely good psyker defense he can/will walk through your lines. I've seen him do it too many times. I play Blood Angels and have only used him once, but he is a common choice and I've seen him plenty of times. Luckily he's usually a bit scared of the swarmlord...and a little more picky about when he decided to use his powers. But any psyker will suffer in those situations.

In using him I've found his pretty good stat line and the fact that his initiative makes him hit first and likely to hit with every attack, which can one shot anything that can be one shotted.

@drummerboy, I said in my first post I run a libby in terminator armor w/ a storm shield, upgraded to an epistolary w/ unleash rage and might of heroes-gives his unit preferred enemy and any one model in his squad gets +D3 attacks. I throw him in a unit of 6 terminators, half TH/SS, half TLC, add in a sanguine priest, throw em all in a LRC and throw em out of a thunderhawk. my buddies haven't figured out how to deal with that AND a stormraven full of death company and lemartes yet. especially after my suicide honor guard deep strikes first turn to blow up pesky land raiders that have to let out future-foot slogging termies

And how much does that all cost?

For what you pay, Mephiston is a hell of a lot of beatstick. Play him right, and he'll more than make back his value, leaving the rest of your army to do what they want while your opponent struggles with the horrendous monster that is Mephiston.

Likewise, a single lucky vindicator could cripple your Librarian/terminator squad (3+ save still means you'll lose a significant amount of bodies), whereas Mephiston shrugs it off with no degredation to his combat potential.

True, but Mephiston can't charge 3 units at a time and know he will wipe all of them out, either by direct killing or sending the remains running for the table edge. Plus I kill my friend's vindicator as quickly as possible: it can cause serious damage with his lucky green dice rolling for scatter (he's Irish, and his green dice are seriously lucky. No exaggeration, he rolls a 6 nine times out of ten for stealing initiative. My other friends have suffered from this too). Another friend of mine quit after having my librarians unit do just what I said: cut through at least a 3rd of his army in one turn, then march through another 3rd of it on my next turn-he managed to kill 2 honor guard only. List is small, but it hits HARD

yeah, he's considered "powerful" because he's a monstrous creature - something that space marines DESPERATELY needed, given how poorly competitive their codex was before. That and he's an MC you can hide in a land raider (or even just behind it). That and he flies. And rainbows sprout out of every step he takes.

Really, he's insantely more durable than anything else that marines can put down, and this really throws people for a loop. That and he's really good at taking down death star units... like mephiston...

As others have mentioned, he's way expensive for what he does most of the time, and a prepared opponent will make him dead in an awful hurry.

It's worth noting that Mephiston is also crazy kinds of fast. With a 24" range potential threat range, he's beastly once he gets on the move. It's all about getting him committed to combat as soon as possible, and keeping him alive long enough to do it. With his awesome statline, it shouldn't be too hard if you make good use of cover.

Get him in, and let him go wild. The basic rule is that if you can keep him protected long enough to get him moving through the enemy's ranks, or if your opponent simply isn't prepared to face him, then he'll walk right through them. If you don't support him, he'll be eaten alive.

But when he shines, he really, really shines.

While he is good most armies have something that can counter him and then some. orks have Gazzy that [Mod Edit - Let's Not Go There.] Meph in combat, Eldar have RoWard which rapes him even before combat, then there is plasma ect

I think the problem here is you comparing apples to oranges. There are about 550pts worth of reasons why Mephiston is not as good as an 800pt unit (excluding the thunderhawk if you were being serious). Mephiston is a supporting character and when used right in the right circumstances he can wreak havoc in any army lines.

And this is just my opinion, but with 1 stormraven and a a LR (of any type)you will get rocked in the shooting phase; both of those units will be footing it against any competitive army list. If you DS them both then they are stuck right out in front of the armies anyway without being able to charge and you would then get shot to hell.

I agree with you about the BA characters being pricey, but not overpriced. The more elite you make a list, the more potential you give that list, but it is much harder to tap into reliably. A good dante list with good synergy the best build I've played against or with.

I'm not knocking the BA death-star build; however, I do feel like there are much stronger options for lists given a good tactical player. The problem with lists like these (and nob lists etc.) is that they are one hit wonders and once you've seen it once, you've seen it a dozen times. Just like others have said, good players will have a good answer(s) to lists like this. Running Mephiston; though expensive, doesn't compromise the list and if in the right build will still be able to have a chance against good players with good builds.

But anyways, good luck, the above is just my opinion. And no I don't claim to be the god of 40k, just giving you my thoughts.

Good Luck