When a flamer template hits a tank...what happens?

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**Jaon**

Ok. My question is simple. For the purposes of answering the question, we will use an against the rules unit.

SO! We have a terminator with a flamestorm cannon. He is standing 1 inch from a Chaos rhinos front armour. He burns the vehicle. The template reaches all the way to the back of the rhino, touching its rear armour. My question is what armour facing does it hit? And if it hits front because thats where its coming from, say your standing to the side of the rhino, could you position the template so its touching rear armour to get a rear armour hit?

**Bookwrack**

It hits the front armor, because that's the side that the firing model is facing.

If you're facing the side armor, you hit the side armor.

**Gorkamorka**

Bookwrack wrote:It hits the front armor, because that's the side that the firing model is facing.

If you're facing the side armor, you hit the side armor.

For confirmation: P60 of the BRB, "Template and Blast Weapons against Vehicles"

**Jaon**

Flamer templates are slightly more placeable than blast templates. Ok new question.

If theres a 2 inch high wall, one enemy on your side, the rest on the other, can you flame through it? Because templates dont get STOPPED by cover, they just get a cover save from it. But templates ignore cover save sooo..does it allow you to burn the models behind it?

**Monster Rain**

Can you see the other models? If so, then you can flame them. Otherwise you can't because you have to have LOS to shoot at something.

**time wizard**

You need LOS to target a unit, but the template hits any models fully or partially under the template.

**Soup and a roll**

Are you sure you need to target a unit to fire a template weapon? (I don't have a book on me).

**kirsanth**

Yes. You must choose a target for any shooting.

**Joetaco**

except in the case of barrage weapons which do not need line of sight

**kirsanth**

Joetaco wrote:except in the case of barrage weapons which do not need line of sight

Err. . . You still need to choose a target.

**don_mondo**

Joetaco wrote:except in the case of barrage weapons which do not need line of sight

Yep, still need to choose a target, as the blast marker must still have it's center hole located over a model in the target unit.

**Soup and a roll**

OK, thanks for the lookup. Just thinking out loud here: If you can see any enemy model, that means you can try to shoot at it (with the normal provisos). With a template weapon it has to hit as many models in the target unit as possible. If it can't reach, the max is 0 and it makes no difference which way the template was orientated. The template could then be placed to hit the unit on the other side of the wall, even if it is out of view and not an eligible target (as in Jaon's example).

Any objections?

**nosferatu1001**

Yes: any weapon which is not in range automatically misses. So nothing can possibly be hit.

**time wizard**

If the target is out of view it is not an eligible target.

If you have LOS to a model, and the template falls over another enemy unit, any models that fall under the template are hit.

It still has to be a valid target in the first place.

**Jaon**

I purposely said theres one enemy on your side of the wall and the rest behind it, SO you could actually target it.

**Gwar!**

Jaon wrote:I purposely said theres one enemy on your side of the wall and the rest behind it, SO you could actually target it.

Yes, and in this case, models under the template but out of LoS still count as being hit since you legally targeted the unit.

**Soup and a roll**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes: any weapon which is not in range automatically misses. So nothing can possibly be hit.

I see. Thanks. (You ruin all my fun nos, with your knowledge of the actual rules.)

@Joan: Didn't read that properly, sorry.

**Jaon**

Soup and a roll wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes: any weapon which is not in range automatically misses. So nothing can possibly be hit.

I see. Thanks. (You ruin all my fun nos, with your knowledge of the actual rules.)

@Joan: Didn't read that properly, sorry.

Please. My name is Jaon. Pronounced Jay-on. Its people like you who make me want to change my gamer tag.

**Soup and a roll**

Didn't read that properly either. Might have to take a night-course. Sorry Jaon!

**VoxDei**

Gwar! wrote:
Jaon wrote:I purposely said theres one enemy on your side of the wall and the rest behind it, SO you could actually target it.
Yes, and in this case, models under the template but out of LoS still count as being hit since you legally targeted the unit.

^^This. LOS targetting is done from firing model to UNIT. If the firing model can draw line of sight to any of the unit then he can target the unit. then you place the template over as many models as you can (even if you can't draw LOS to any of those models. the model you can see doesn't have to be covered by the template). They are of course under 4+ cover but most if not all template weapons ignore cover.

**Dark Scipio**

Another question that fits here I think,
can I freely place the blast template anywhere on a vehicle?
I assume I need LOS to the spot on the vehicle.

**Gwar!**

Dark Scipio wrote:Another question that fits here I think,
can I freely place the blast template anywhere on a vehicle?
I assume I need LOS to the spot on the vehicle.

Yes and Surprisingly no.

You can put the Marker anywhere over the Hull of the vehicle so long as the hole is completely over the vehicle.
This can be placed anywhere, even over a portion of the hull that you do not have LOS to. The only LOS Requirement is for you to be able to see at least 0.0000000... 000001% of the facing of the vehicle you are shooting at. If that's true, then the Marker is placed anywhere you want.

**Monster Rain**

I'm pretty sure you have to see where you're putting the blast template.

**JSK-Fox**

Nope. I could put the blast marker on the other side of the tank if i wanted to. But, would it be useful?
No, since it's always better to put it in the middile.
Gwar knows what he's talking about, though.

**don_mondo**

Monster Rain wrote:I'm pretty sure you have to see where you're putting the blast template.

While you would indeed think that, nothing is the rules requires you to see the location of the blast marker when placing it on a vehicle. All that is required is to see some portion of the vehicle.

**Monster Rain**

My rule book is on a moving truck, so I'll have to defer on this one for now. It seems to me that there is a distinction between targeting a vehicle and placing a blast marker over it...

You win. For now.

**time wizard**

Monster Rain wrote:My rule book is on a moving truck, so I'll have to defer on this one for now. It seems to me that there is a distinction between targeting a vehicle and placing a blast marker over it...

You win. For now.

The rules are covered nicely on page 60 (when you get your book back off the truck

)

When you fire at a vehicle you must be able to see its hull or turret. You then roll to hit as normal.

For a blast weapon, you place the marker so the hole is over any part of the vehicle's hull then roll for scatter.

**Gwar!**

JSK-Fox wrote:Nope. I could put the blast marker on the other side of the tank if i wanted to. But, would it be useful?
No, since it's always better to put it in the middile.
Gwar knows what he's talking about, though.

To segue quickly to the evil Grey Realm of Tactics™, it isn't, strictly speaking, always better to put it in the centre of the tank.

For example, a unit of Spess Mahrines has just Disembarked from one of their Metal Bawkes and shot the Nastybad enemy with their Mindlazors. They are all clumped together now. One of your Better-Metal Bawkes with a BFG9000 comes rolling up and fires T3h Pi3 Plate of Dhoom© at the Metal Bawks. You can place the Plate in such a way to get a hit on the Bawks and still hit a ton of Spess Mahrines, causing Maximium Baysplosion.

I think there was a point there, but the main gist is that it isn't ALWAYS better. </Semantics Troll>