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Okay... so this question came up recently with my bro,

Can you get a devilfish without getting a unit of firewarriors for it?


We were doing killteams at 200 pts. and I was considering getting 2 D-Fish with SMS but...

My bro was under the opinion that you couldn't because of something having to do with it being a transport, but I didn't see any rules dictating that you couldn't take a devilfish by itself.

So which way is it?

You can't take a devilfish by itself - it's not a troops choice, so it can't be taken as one. You have to buy either FW or PF to get it.

How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.

Isn't it a dedicated transport? I know some of the older 'dex's arn't quite clear with the transport sections (EG: chaos codex has their rhino in the troops section, though it is seperated by a grey box)

As the devilfish is it's own entry in troops choices with a points value it can be taken without being dedicated. I think the confusion comes in as everyone takes them as dedicated under normal circumstances. That and Pathfinders are required to take them. A Tau army is usually filled with fish from Pathfinders and firewarrirors so there usually isn't a need to buy them outright.

So unless I missed a special rule somewhere yes they can be purchased seperatly.

The Bringer wrote:How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.

because it's a DT derp.

@ mel

is right.

theres nothing on the Dedicated transport, or in my codex that says they have to be assigned to a squad.

I guess it's just assumed.

asnwering the original question:

You can't take it in KT because it's not a troop, elite or fast attack.

Workaround:

It says in the main rulebook [pg 87] that they're considered the squad they're bought for, but are still DT.

So, a team of FW who are troops, can use a in KT. assuming they're under 200 pt.

Captain Solon wrote:

The Bringer wrote:How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.

because it's a DT derp.

@ mel

is right.

theres nothing on the Dedicated transport, or in my codex that says they have to be assigned to a squad.

I guess it's just assumed.

asnwering the original question:

You can't take it in KT because it's not a troop, elite or fast attack.

Workaround:

It says in the main rulebook [pg 87] that they're considered the squad they're bought for, but are still DT.

So, a team of FW who are troops, can use a in KT. assuming they're under 200 pt.

Dedicated transports Must be bought with a Squad; read over the DT box in the BRB a few times. It flat tells you the squad opens the option for the DT.

Secondly the Devilfish is not a Dedicated Transport; it is a unit under the Troops section(therefore a Troops Choice).

Now I know what you are going to say: "But it says Transportevilfish in it's entry"

I counter that with: "True, but it does not say Dedicated Transportevilfish"

We have a fair Idea what it is supposed to be(a DT), but Codex as written(albeit not in this edition) has it listed as a Troops choice.

You have 3 ways of choosing a Devilfish: as a DT for Firewarriors, as a DT for Pathfinders, or as a Stand alone troops choice.

RAW, RAI, RAP, I would err to the safe side and say it's a dedicated transport.

Whatever the case, let your opponent know before a game.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Secondly the Devilfish is not a Dedicated Transport; it is a unit under the Troops section(therefore a Troops Choice).

Nope. It's in the Troops section, but it's not a Troops unit... It's a Transport. Look in the margin.

Now I know what you are going to say: "But it says Transportevilfish in it's entry"

I counter that with: "True, but it does not say Dedicated Transportevilfish"

You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport. A DT is simply a Transport bought for a unit through its options.

You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.

Chimera

I think with how it's listed, if someone wanted to take a lone Devilfish in a troop slot, there is nothing that I can see that says they can't. It is listed in the troop selection with it's own point value, it has the troop unit icon next to it, and there is nothing in the BRB forbiding you from doing so. It still isn't scoring however.

Insaniak +1

This comes up periodically, and the debate is the same.

There is (shakey) reasoning to say it can be done, but I have never (and probably will never) read nor played it that way.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.

Chimera

Well spotted. It would appear I have to correct myself... The latest batch of codexes actually have started labelling the Dedicated Transport section as a Dedicated Transport section, rather than the generic 'Transports' heading, the separated box, or the different margin label used in older codexes.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.

Chimera

I think with how it's listed, if someone wanted to take a lone Devilfish in a troop slot, there is nothing that I can see that says they can't. It is listed in the troop selection with it's own point value, it has the troop unit icon next to it, and there is nothing in the BRB forbiding you from doing so. It still isn't scoring however.

Rhino.

Razorback.

Drop pod.

Wave Serpent and Chaos Rhino are in Boxes; thus separated from any FOC.

Black templar's Rhinos, razrobacks, abd drop pods are all on a special page under the Heading "Transports" with a paragraph detailing their rules(and describing them in a similar manner to dedicated transports, but forcing them to only transport what they are bought for)

The devilfish on the other hand is not in a box; nor under the heading of Dedicated transports. It is a Unit in the Troops section with the full name of Transport: Devilfish troop carrier.

Also I have an extra Note; that I still have a Copy of Codex Space marines 4th Ed, Which was written 1 year before codex Tau Empire(I just checked the publishing dates). In Codex Space marines(4th) they had the same Transport Section with Rhinos razorbacks and Drop pods that the Black templars has.

So that even shoots down the theory that they Dedicated Transports didn't come in there own section of the army list at the time the codex was written; because it certainly was(at least 1 year before in fact).

The only good taking a non-dedicated Devilfish is really going to do you is to use it to transport Kroot; but then you get what; 3 small units of kroot, 2 devilfish, and the obligatory Firewarrior squad?"

All I am saying is that the Codex was poorly written(in some places) and it is legal to take a devilfish as a troops choice because of it.

If there is no special place in the codex that lists it as a DT how can you tell if a transport can be taken by its self or not? Do you just guess? Or assume that anything that can be taken as a DT cannot be taken by its self?

Of course, if you want to pull that, I can pull one higher (they call me a Trolle for a reason).

Pretty much nothing in the Tau Codex works anymore, especially Battlesuit stuff.

The best one is drones on a Fish can never fire, as they are treated as Passengers and as stated, Passengers may not fire when abord the vehicle.

Err. the only place i remember it mentioning drones as passengers is they disembark as passengers. But they fire as guns on the DF (although using their own BS). I don't recall anywhere saying they are passengers.

HerpaDerpDerp. That's what I get for skipping coffee.

Fine, how about Target Locks causing the Game to Implode?

And also, a Devilfish is not Troops. Look at the bar on the left hand side of the FW and the Right of the Kroot, both of which say Troops. The one for the Fish Clearly says Transport. Ergo, they take up "Transport" FoC slots.

ya. Target locks are broken. I don't know anyone else but you that still plays them with a test though .

Ah, I finally see what you two are talking about in the margin...didn't notice the little vertical text. That's a fair enough indicator for me.

Gwar! wrote:Of course, if you want to pull that, I can pull one higher (they call me a Trolle for a reason).

Pretty much nothing in the Tau Codex works anymore, especially Battlesuit stuff.

The best one is drones on a Fish can never fire, as they are treated as Passengers and as stated, Passengers may not fire when abord the vehicle.

Hey, Drones are not passengers - oh, I didn't start that aga-

Yeah, I think we're done here.