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Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Mt. Gretna, PA

Okay... so this question came up recently with my bro,

Can you get a devilfish without getting a unit of firewarriors for it?


We were doing killteams at 200 pts. and I was considering getting 2 D-Fish with SMS but...

My bro was under the opinion that you couldn't because of something having to do with it being a transport, but I didn't see any rules dictating that you couldn't take a devilfish by itself.

So which way is it?

 Goliath wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of drugs do you have to be on to see Hitler in your teapot?
Whichever they are, I'm not on the Reich ones, clearly.
 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






Ft Leonard Wood Mo

You can't take a devilfish by itself - it's not a troops choice, so it can't be taken as one. You have to buy either FW or PF to get it.

 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Mt. Gretna, PA

How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.

 Goliath wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of drugs do you have to be on to see Hitler in your teapot?
Whichever they are, I'm not on the Reich ones, clearly.
 
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





England

Isn't it a dedicated transport? I know some of the older 'dex's arn't quite clear with the transport sections (EG: chaos codex has their rhino in the troops section, though it is seperated by a grey box)
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept





St. Louis

As the devilfish is it's own entry in troops choices with a points value it can be taken without being dedicated. I think the confusion comes in as everyone takes them as dedicated under normal circumstances. That and Pathfinders are required to take them. A Tau army is usually filled with fish from Pathfinders and firewarrirors so there usually isn't a need to buy them outright.

So unless I missed a special rule somewhere yes they can be purchased seperatly.
   
Made in au
Courageous Questing Knight






Australia

The Bringer wrote:How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.


because it's a DT derp.

@ mel

is right.

theres nothing on the Dedicated transport, or in my codex that says they have to be assigned to a squad.

I guess it's just assumed.

asnwering the original question:

You can't take it in KT because it's not a troop, elite or fast attack.

Workaround:

It says in the main rulebook [pg 87] that they're considered the squad they're bought for, but are still DT.

So, a team of FW who are troops, can use a in KT. assuming they're under 200 pt.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/08/03 15:28:19


DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Captain Solon wrote:
The Bringer wrote:How is it not a troops choice?

It's in the troops section. I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise.


because it's a DT derp.

@ mel

is right.

theres nothing on the Dedicated transport, or in my codex that says they have to be assigned to a squad.

I guess it's just assumed.

asnwering the original question:

You can't take it in KT because it's not a troop, elite or fast attack.

Workaround:

It says in the main rulebook [pg 87] that they're considered the squad they're bought for, but are still DT.

So, a team of FW who are troops, can use a in KT. assuming they're under 200 pt.


Dedicated transports Must be bought with a Squad; read over the DT box in the BRB a few times. It flat tells you the squad opens the option for the DT.

Secondly the Devilfish is not a Dedicated Transport; it is a unit under the Troops section(therefore a Troops Choice).

Now I know what you are going to say: "But it says Transportevilfish in it's entry"

I counter that with: "True, but it does not say Dedicated Transportevilfish"

We have a fair Idea what it is supposed to be(a DT), but Codex as written(albeit not in this edition) has it listed as a Troops choice.

You have 3 ways of choosing a Devilfish: as a DT for Firewarriors, as a DT for Pathfinders, or as a Stand alone troops choice.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





RAW, RAI, RAP, I would err to the safe side and say it's a dedicated transport.

Whatever the case, let your opponent know before a game.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Kommissar Kel wrote:Secondly the Devilfish is not a Dedicated Transport; it is a unit under the Troops section(therefore a Troops Choice).


Nope. It's in the Troops section, but it's not a Troops unit... It's a Transport. Look in the margin.



Now I know what you are going to say: "But it says Transportevilfish in it's entry"

I counter that with: "True, but it does not say Dedicated Transportevilfish"


You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport. A DT is simply a Transport bought for a unit through its options.

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.


Chimera

I think with how it's listed, if someone wanted to take a lone Devilfish in a troop slot, there is nothing that I can see that says they can't. It is listed in the troop selection with it's own point value, it has the troop unit icon next to it, and there is nothing in the BRB forbiding you from doing so. It still isn't scoring however.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in us
Huge Bone Giant





Oakland, CA -- U.S.A.

Insaniak +1

This comes up periodically, and the debate is the same.

There is (shakey) reasoning to say it can be done, but I have never (and probably will never) read nor played it that way.

"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."

DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Maelstrom808 wrote:
You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.


Chimera


Well spotted. It would appear I have to correct myself... The latest batch of codexes actually have started labelling the Dedicated Transport section as a Dedicated Transport section, rather than the generic 'Transports' heading, the separated box, or the different margin label used in older codexes.

 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Maelstrom808 wrote:
You won't find any unit in any codex listed as a Dedicated Transport.


Chimera

I think with how it's listed, if someone wanted to take a lone Devilfish in a troop slot, there is nothing that I can see that says they can't. It is listed in the troop selection with it's own point value, it has the troop unit icon next to it, and there is nothing in the BRB forbiding you from doing so. It still isn't scoring however.


Rhino.

Razorback.

Drop pod.

Wave Serpent and Chaos Rhino are in Boxes; thus separated from any FOC.

Black templar's Rhinos, razrobacks, abd drop pods are all on a special page under the Heading "Transports" with a paragraph detailing their rules(and describing them in a similar manner to dedicated transports, but forcing them to only transport what they are bought for)

The devilfish on the other hand is not in a box; nor under the heading of Dedicated transports. It is a Unit in the Troops section with the full name of Transport: Devilfish troop carrier.

Also I have an extra Note; that I still have a Copy of Codex Space marines 4th Ed, Which was written 1 year before codex Tau Empire(I just checked the publishing dates). In Codex Space marines(4th) they had the same Transport Section with Rhinos razorbacks and Drop pods that the Black templars has.

So that even shoots down the theory that they Dedicated Transports didn't come in there own section of the army list at the time the codex was written; because it certainly was(at least 1 year before in fact).

The only good taking a non-dedicated Devilfish is really going to do you is to use it to transport Kroot; but then you get what; 3 small units of kroot, 2 devilfish, and the obligatory Firewarrior squad?"

All I am saying is that the Codex was poorly written(in some places) and it is legal to take a devilfish as a troops choice because of it.


This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




If there is no special place in the codex that lists it as a DT how can you tell if a transport can be taken by its self or not? Do you just guess? Or assume that anything that can be taken as a DT cannot be taken by its self?
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Of course, if you want to pull that, I can pull one higher (they call me a Trolle for a reason).

Pretty much nothing in the Tau Codex works anymore, especially Battlesuit stuff.

The best one is drones on a Fish can never fire, as they are treated as Passengers and as stated, Passengers may not fire when abord the vehicle.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2010/08/04 15:09:30


Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




Err. the only place i remember it mentioning drones as passengers is they disembark as passengers. But they fire as guns on the DF (although using their own BS). I don't recall anywhere saying they are passengers.
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







HerpaDerpDerp. That's what I get for skipping coffee.

Fine, how about Target Locks causing the Game to Implode?

And also, a Devilfish is not Troops. Look at the bar on the left hand side of the FW and the Right of the Kroot, both of which say Troops. The one for the Fish Clearly says Transport. Ergo, they take up "Transport" FoC slots.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/08/04 15:20:42


Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




ya. Target locks are broken. I don't know anyone else but you that still plays them with a test though .
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Ah, I finally see what you two are talking about in the margin...didn't notice the little vertical text. That's a fair enough indicator for me.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




Gwar! wrote:Of course, if you want to pull that, I can pull one higher (they call me a Trolle for a reason).

Pretty much nothing in the Tau Codex works anymore, especially Battlesuit stuff.

The best one is drones on a Fish can never fire, as they are treated as Passengers and as stated, Passengers may not fire when abord the vehicle.


Hey, Drones are not passengers - oh, I didn't start that aga-


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yeah, I think we're done here.

 
   
 
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