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What do you reckon is the best setup for an Eldar Falcon ?

Ive just got my first as my army has been foot slogging for some time (successfully) but i think its time for some heavy support and fast transport
Any suggestions?

Fill it with fire dragons, spirit stones, holo fields, shuriken cannon upgrade, star cannon for MEQ or scatter laser to maximize crappy bs3, combat speed.

Fire Dragons and Combat Speed don't work very well together IMO.
Gunboat or small transport, the oppurtunity cost is quite large if the the weapons are upgraded like that.

With that said, what do you want it to do Avalon?
As a gunboat is really needs Guide.
As a transport, you'll want to skimp on upgrades.
Eldar are not really of the 'generalist' sort with units.

I see what your saying, I just like it being able to deal with most scenarios.

See i currently play a variation of the Ulthwe and Alaitoc craftworlds in an attempt to create my own craftworld since im fond of being original but ive been on the knifes edge between the two.

Anyway, right now my army is made up of something like this:

HQ:

Farseer + Warlock Body guards
Autarch/Muagan Ra


Troops:

5 Pathfinders/Rangers (depending on points scale)
5 Pathfinders/Rangers (depending on points scale)
10 Guardians + Warlock
10 Guardians + Warlock
10 Wraith Guards

Elites

8 Scorpions + Exarch
8 Dragons + Exarch
8 Banshee + Exarch

Heavy

8 Reapers + Exarch

Fast

8 Hawks + Exarch
8 Spiders + Exarch

See here the play is normally foot slogging, and in the likely event someone brings a tank or some sort of mech unit, ill use the hawks to immobilize and then the dragons to finish them off with scorpions infiltrating through cover, banshees and harlequins are saved for full frontal CC, harlequins sometimes i sue more then banshees as they have the veil of tears. The Wraith guards are normally a deterrent and work well in drawing some fire then taking out what ever is shooting them, normally a tank of some sorts. Spiders i normally save for some sort of heavy armored unit no tanks but something like terminators but not without some cover fire from the reapers. Mind the reapers i keep on the field each game, it give my opponent something to think about especially if Muagan Ra is accompanying them and the wraiths are closing in.

Other wise its something like this depending on the points of the game. Though it has worked out. Ive only just got a falcon to transport some unit faster across the field though now ive opened the box to find the two main weapons you see on the picture and a whole host of other weapons like the missile launcher and the lance i think.

For the moment you want to leave the falcon on the shelf, unless you're playing Apocalypse, as you are better of with a naked fire prism and serpent then one tricked out falcon.

If you must take a falcon then Dire avengers tend to work best. With a holofield it tough to crack at range and that small scoring unit will be safe throughout the game. Weapons? My moneys on the EML, if you have the points also upgrade that cannon, It can fire at two strengths so if you have to move 12" you may still be able to firer it. A good trick is to fire it a transport (drop pod), since its fairly easy to place the blast so it touches the models that just got out (I like to remove drop pods when they come down, too often they can contest an objective)

Falcon,

Spirit Stones and Holofield
Pulse Laser
Eldar Missile Launcher
Shuriken catapult.

This gives it the option of moving 6 and putting out 3 S8 shots for anti-tank, MC, and Heavy inf.
or moving 12 and puting out 2 S8 shots, a plasma missile and a couple shuriken shots. The Shurikannon is nice, but ends up being used too little IMHO.

I'll run it with fire dragons inside or a 6 man seer council.

Hang on, enlighten me. Ive never put together one of these things so im not sure what the things are in the box.
Here ive put in two pictures of what ive got to choose from.

Im familiar with the scatter laser, missile launcher, shurkin cannon, but the others im not sure.

Like those things with the three little 'finger' i assume are counter measures or grenade launchers.

Eldar use very specialist units, so you'll need to examine the role you want your falcon to play. Lets go through the analysis!

Never put Fire Dragons in a falcon. They are invariably better served in a Wave Serpent, which has a special rule protecting it from melta (important at short range, which is where they will be), is cheaper than a falcon (easier to part with), and has a tl gun to mitigate the low ballistic skill.

Lets look at the Falcon.

It has a pulse laser, which is strenght 8 ap2, and an additional heavy weapon. The best option at this point is an eldar missile launcher, which is s8 as well, so it will be useful against many of the same targets as the pulse laser, and it can still be fired as a defensive weapon if you do need to move 12 inches.

Its a gunship but only ballistic skill 3. You should put a basic farseer with guide and runes of warding into it. Now you can twinlink all of those big guns, and have the best psychic defense in the game. Gravy.

All your big guns have 48 inch range. Thats huge, and you will likely want to be far away from the action. It also happens to have a transport capacity for 6 troops. Put a 5 man Avenger squad in there along with the seer, and you can hold an objective far away from combat with your gunship. Gravy.

Now you want to hold that objective. Holofields are a great choice, 2d6 take the lowest on each pen roll, that means just over 50% of all pens are going to be either shaken or stunned (spirit stones will mean over 50% of the time you'll only have a shaken result!) Since you won't be moving that much from your objective... that doesn't matter as much, but it may be useful late game. Not to mention that each pen only has a 14% chance of destroying your tanks (compared to 33% without holofields) These defenses serve another purpose as well, Holofield falcons and fire prisms can absorb a huge amount of punishment, any anti tank shots that they take, are anti tank shots NOT going at your avenger and dragon serpents. Gravy

Essentially its going to come down to something like this if you want to run a falcon.

(90) Farseer- guide, runes of warding
(60) 5 Dire Avengers
(170) Falcon- eml, holofields

Its a fair amount of points, but it gives you a scoring gunship with 3 tl s8 shots from 48 inch range, and can absorb an inordinate amount of punishment. Its the only way I'd run a Falcon.

Alternately, if you are already running pathfinders, you can use the falcon to baby sit them. If something scary comes they can hop in, and make the falcon scoring, if they are all alone, they can shoot from outside and the farseer can guide them or the falcon depending. Just one note on that, Rangers cannot move and shoot, so relocating them, or just placing them in the falconwill always cost you 2 turns of shooting.

Since your list is mostly ground based however, a falcon won't help you that much. While it is well suited to sit on an objective and take punishment, its role on the battle field is to draw Anti tank fire away from your other tanks, and fire its 3 tl s8 shots whenever it has the chance. Since you don't have any other tanks, your falcon will just float there being shaken or stuned all game, as it is the only target for enemy anti tank. If you were running an Avatar and wraithlords however, a falcon would be a better buy, as it would draw fire away from them.

Wow ... I just wanted to know which pieces are which. Cheers though.

The pulse laser is the big one, right ?
I've never used a Falcon before, go figure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since ive never actually used the falcon in play your advice is goin to help alot

Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon
Scatter Laser, Star Cannon
(side bit), (part of the bight lance), Bright Lance
(side bit), (part of the Shuriken cannon), (Rear part of star cannon), (Part of the missile launcher)

And the biggest gun (one that looks like a bigger bright lance) is a pulse laser ... Right think that covers everything.

Holo field. It greatly improves the survivability of your Falcon. Check the simhammer to see for yourself.

Alright here goes, ive decided to set up my falcon as such:

shuriken cannon
pulse laser
twin linked shuriken catapults

holofields
spirit stones

and as i always have a farseer or few warlocks in my army them doom, guide, and others psychic power are available. will post up pictures of the finished product soon.

In advance, sorry for the long post. Be prepared.

Falcon with EML, Holofields, Spirit Stones, and Star Engines. Fill it with plain Dire Avengers and use it for fire support since it has one of the longest ranged weapons the Eldar have besides the Prism and the three S8 shots really put the hurt on and unit you target, but you have to have a farseer to guide it or you'll miss a lot. Your opponent will quickly get annoyed and probably shoot out all its weapons before he actually destroys it. If that happens, pop the Avengers out in anticipation next turn and ram into an enemy tank. The holofields will give your falcon a better chance of staying alive than whatever you're ramming and the look on your opponent's face when you blow up his tank and his attack whiffs on yours is priceless. It'll completely demoralize him and you might just get the chance to do it to another vehicle next turn.

It may seem like a waste if your tank is destroyed and does nothing since its so expensive but the odds are stacked in your favor. If the falcon is your only chance to score a tie or win, obviously don't do it but if you have four more tanks around, the sacrifice usually pays off. In one game I destroyed a dreadnought with that tactic (he tried to death or glory and scored a glance) and next turn he focused all his firepower on that falcon and I kept rolling my cover saves until it got destroyed in the assault phase, but it kept all my other units safe. Not exactly something to base an army around but its just a niche use it has just in case (works wonders against a leafblower IG list).

In summary, perks of a decked out Falcon vs a pair of Fire Prisms: Can hold last minute objectives with cheap Dire Avengers, still very effective range, 3 S8 shots a turn, frustratingly hard to kill, has the ability to bowling pin enemy vehicles and live. The Prism is a poor tank hunter and a mediocre infantry killer. Even with combined beams, you're talking 230pts for a single twin-linked shot (Marines get three, awesome armor, and transport for +20, CSM for the same cost, and IG for 100 points less plus transport and extra armor) or a S6 AP3 shot but with cover as generous as it is, its doubtful you'll ever make up those points. The only thing that makes Eldar tanks better is the ability to take holofields and the falcon is the better candidate.

@Avalon. I would try and find the points to upgrade the Shuriken Cannon to a Scatter Laser if you can, EML if you want a bit more anti tank punch (ideally use magnets so you can swap them around). While sticking with the Shuriken Cannon keeps the points down, its short range gets you a bit close for comfort, you want to be staying back to avoid fire (particularly melta). If you want a transport which is going to go in close use a Serpent.

Falcons with DAVU (Guide Seer optional) are one of the best backfield objective taking units in the game, they are a real pain to kill (Holo-fields, plenty of weapons and can boost around if it gets shaken) and make decent gunboats as well, essentially they play like fast, scoring Dakka Predators (if you upgrade to an underslung Shuriken Cannon as well then you are far more shooty as well).

Having said that I'm amazed you can win games with that list you posted, its doesn't have a particularly big damage output and to say that it is fragile would be the biggest understatement of the year. Most armies should be able to blow that completely off the table in 3-4 turns and if you run into anything resembling a mech list then they could take as long as they want to kill as you have very little anti tank ability at all.

Firstly, one falcon won't do alot. Are you planning to get some more transports?
I run my falcon with spirit stones, vectored engines, holo fields and EML.
Most of the time I run 5 dire avengers in them. And I just hang back to take a backfield objective.

Generally speaking, I agree with akaean.

Fill the tank with 5 dire avengers. Give it an EML or a scatter laser, and holofields. Keep the tank plunking away at long range, as it's quite tough against anything not AP1, and swoop in to seize objectives at the end, if necessary.

As a disclaimer, I am on the wave serpent + fire prism side of the debate. but I do think the falcon has some advantages, and as long as your weapons are set up right and you've got an idea of what role the tank will play in your tactics, it's not a make-or-break choice.

on the falcon v fire prism debate, I must also admit to being on the side of fire prisms.

They way I see it though, is you only need 2 prisms, and you have 3 heavy support slots.

My order of operations with heavy support is get 2 prisms on the field, give them holofields if I can to help take heat off the wave serpents, THEN get a falcon.

Reasoning of course being that 2 fire prisms is exponentially better than 1, but the third (I feel) adds less than a falcon would.

In a bigger point game, 3 scary long range tanks with holofields is great for target saturation and diverting long range anti tank fire away from the more vulnerable serpents who are up closer to the enemy and better suited to dealing with melta anyway, it really plays to the strengths of all your tanks.

What about 2 WSs containing scorpions and DAs, 2 Fire Prisms, and 1 Reaper unit. The Fire Prisms stay at the back of the board, and the WSs and then reapers come in on the flanks. Then some defenders to hold the objectives, and an HQ, and your all set. For me, the Fire Prism is more tank, and more kill for the same points.

The Falcon is 115 points basic, so is the Fire Prism. The main weapons are free on both tanks. They both have Shuriken catapults (two), upgradable to one shuriken cannon for 10pts. The Fire Prism's Prism cannon can shoot at vehicles & MCs, and infantry, the Falcon can only shoot at tanks. However, on the other hand, I admit that the Falcon does have an extra shot with this weapon, but then, this is almost exactly like the WS with two Eldar MLs. And finally, I also admit that there is room for passengers, where as the Fire Prism has none, half of that in the WS.

And so, I must conclude. Think of the falcon like this. It has less choice for weapons than the WS, it carries half the passengers, for the price of a Fire Prism. For what? Erm... less. The Fire Prism on the other hand is not a confused character. It is just a weapon that serves as an anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-anything, heavy weapon, able to take out enemies from the other side of the board. And considering the things can combine fire, this is definitely something to be aware of.

So, forget the Falcon, and it's confused character, get WSs for transporting the troops, and Fire Prisms for shooting tanks, APCs and nasty nasty infantry! I rest my case.

P.S. Forgot about the other falcon's other weapon, sorry folks! The best imho is the scatter laser, yet, you can get two of those on a WS, and despite the shots, at AP6, it just hardly seems to make a difference imo. And anyways, you have just that tiny bit more chance with a BS of 4, not three all the others have.

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:... and one Reaper unit ...

Hate to break it to you but the only way to use Dark reaper is 3 man, Exarch with tempest launcher and crack shot. They hide completely out of sight and rely on their Exarch for kills.

Suppose you're right, too many points for too little, like the swooping hawks. Back to the topic then...

Falcons lost an edge in the 5th ed.
Generally, they are too expensive.
I'd take Serpents if you want to transport units.
Otherwise, consider Fire Prisms and Night Spinners.

Ideally you do want 2 Fire Prisms first, then get a Night Spinner. And WD 366 for the rules for the grav-tank.

You can still make the falcon essentially unkillable to shooting. Buy spirit stones, holofield, put a farseer and 5 dire avengers inside to make the tank scoring. Stick the tank in cover and fortune the falcon with your farseer.

scuddman wrote:You can still make the falcon essentially unkillable to shooting. Buy spirit stones, holofield, put a farseer and 5 dire avengers inside to make the tank scoring. Stick the tank in cover and fortune the falcon with your farseer.

A very expensive gunboat if you ask me.
However, its scoring with the troops inside.

Just to completely change the thread....might I suggest a different choice for your heavy slot?

Your army is foot slogging, and you say your local metagame is also very heavily foot slogging. This would seem to call for you going with either wraithlord(s) or war walkers. War walkers would fit well into a foot slogger environment and they bring a LOT of firepower failry cheaply. Armed with scatter lasers or emls they can blow through most infantry units. Or armed with shuri cannons they make a very cheap yet deadly outflanking unit (only 120 points for unit of 3).

Since you are already using wraithguard WL are another very good option for your army. You should easily be able to keep them within range of a psycher, and the T8 of the WL can be very hard for many opponents to deal with.


So instead of adding speed just consider increasing the firepwoer/ toughness of your current army style.



Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Just to completely change the thread....might I suggest a different choice for your heavy slot?

Your army is foot slogging, and you say your local metagame is also very heavily foot slogging. This would seem to call for you going with either wraithlord(s) or war walkers. War walkers would fit well into a foot slogger environment and they bring a LOT of firepower failry cheaply. Armed with scatter lasers or emls they can blow through most infantry units. Or armed with shuri cannons they make a very cheap yet deadly outflanking unit (only 120 points for unit of 3).

Since you are already using wraithguard WL are another very good option for your army. You should easily be able to keep them within range of a psycher, and the T8 of the WL can be very hard for many opponents to deal with.


So instead of adding speed just consider increasing the firepwoer/ toughness of your current army style.



Sliggoth

You know that's what it thought too. I have wraith guards, so i was thinking the falcon would better serve to get round to take on the odd mech unit that come along every once in a while. The odd SM player tends to have a tank of some sorts and the IG always have some sort of tank as well, though the players here rely heavily upon strength in numbers. Tyranids though theres one here that plays them and he has i think two carnifex that are fielded more than once and sometimes two together.

The Wratih Lord though i like the sounds of and now have one on order and on its way. My falcon is done and will be making it debut soon on the battle fields.

think ill put up pictures of the finished falcon once the top coat has set and dried.
Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated.

Here it is

Eldar vehicles are a real hit on your points - esp a falcon but it is a good choice for a sit back in 5th ed. I would want two because 1 tends to attract fire and thus even if it survives, it will not get to shoot.

Pulse Laser, EML, TL SC - Holofield and Spirit Stone. Stones because it is always good to move - stationary eldar can easily equal dead eldar. This is the fastest version with good firepower.

Personally this is the place to hide 5-man dire avenger and your farseer. Guide the falcon and it will be nice and accurate.

In 5th ed world, with all the melta floating around, Serpents are for assaulting and Falcons would be good for supporting that assault.

If you want mass firepower when you go stationary, go Shuriken Cannon underneath and Scatter Laser. That means 7 S6 shots and 2 S8 shots.

Use their survivability to provide cover for a fire support unit like walkers or vypers. Personally, even though they cost more vypers. 2 Falcons and 3 or more vypers with Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon.

With two EML falcons and 3 vyper squadron, with one farseer you have 4 S8 AP2 shots and 2 S4 AP4? blasts or to S8 AP3 shots out of the vypers and then when they get within 24", guide the vypers and go to town with 21 S6 shots with rerolls to hit. Even with saves, 15 S6 hits should ruin their day.

The two da units are sitting back and can control objectives and depending on your style, can either hide all day in the falcons or pop out and deliver the coup de grace on the opponent with a well timed bladestorm or regular shot for 10 to 20 S 4 shots.

The problem is what I am proposing is about 1100 points out of your army list and all you have to show for it is two falcons, 3 vypers, a farseer and 11 dire avengers.(1200 if the farseer turns into Eldrad and a little more if you spiff up some exarchs.) So depending on what point total you are playing you may have 1 or 3 more units especially with
transports to play with.