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I am in the mood for some WHFB. I'm going to be finishing up my 40k orks soon and I like to alternate between the two games. I've decided I want to have an evil army as most of my others are good guys (Space Wolves, Lizardmen, Tau, Dwarves, Orks are the exception). I would also like to run something with a differant style of play then what I currently have which usually means a large amount of cc units that either get stuck in quick or outlast the enemy.

So I would like something a little more than just point, charge and have at it though armies with decent cc would be good I just want to do something new and maybe a little more balanced instead of tottaly cc. I'm not new to WHFB I've played for 10 years I'm just not sure what new army I should do. I don't want to do Daemons as I don't like how powerfull they are. Orc and Goblins are out because I'm getting tired of painting green and yelling WAAAGH! Dark Elves are cool but i don't think I like them enough to play them. Maybe though

I'm pretty much open to anything else except Tomb Kings. I think they are really cool and would love to do a Barrow Kings army using them but I want a new codex first. So what would you suggest?

I love Skavens diversity of units and killy machines which to a converter like me leaves alot of elbow room, Vampire counts have the coolness factor, WoC are ok in my opinion but when I started playing EVERYONE had them and still kind of do, I'm kind of leaning towards the Beastmen as they are good at cc but still have some tricks up their sleeves....er...whatever they wear, I can't help but like Ogre Kingdoms. I know they're hard to play with, have an
old codex and I'll always be outnumbered but that's half the fun.

So what would you guys suggest for someone who wants something new but has a little familiarity? Beastmen, Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, WoC or Vampire Counts? Thanks in advance

Ogres aren't technically evil. Though they kind of seem it. They are neutral and are often employed as mercenaries by the good kingdoms.

DukeRustfield wrote:Ogres aren't technically evil. Though they kind of seem it. They are neutral and are often employed as mercenaries by the good kingdoms.

I do own the codex and know their fluff to me an army of brutish monsters who worship a god that would eat the world and everything in it are evil no matter what their proffession is I mean I'm not sure what everyone elses view of what evil is

Now not to seem rude but does anyone have any suggestions as to which army I should do instead of discussing fluff

If you like Ogre Kingdoms, they're due for a new army book shortly after Tomb Kings.

I think the current rumours are Tomb Kings this fall/winter or Spring 2011.
I'd expect Ogres by fall/winter 2011 or early spring 2012.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
I do own the codex and know their fluff to me an army of brutish monsters who worship a god that would eat the world and everything in it are evil no matter what their proffession is I mean I'm not sure what everyone elses view of what evil is

Now not to seem rude but does anyone have any suggestions as to which army I should do instead of discussing fluff

You mentioned evil, so it was you who mentioned fluff. If you don't want to talk about it, don't mention it. And even if you don't want to talk about it, I'll talk about what I want.

Ogres will be as nice as you want if you give them food. Which is what the good kingdoms do. If they were "evil," the good kingdoms wouldn't fight alongside them. And just to ignore your non-fluff request even more, the most successful of Ogre tribes is about extracting money from traders. A veritable blubber-coated Panama canal.

I think you should play High Elves. And give them poodle skirts.

In_Theory wrote:If you like Ogre Kingdoms, they're due for a new army book shortly after Tomb Kings.

I think the current rumours are Tomb Kings this fall/winter or Spring 2011. I'd expect Ogres by fall/winter 2011 or early spring 2012.

That would be great, not about the Ogres but the Tomb Kings I do like Ogres but I think they stick to close to what my current armies do so they're more of like the last army I would do.

Thanks for the rumor update I'll have to do some searching and see what else I can dig up

Ogres are a bit far from pure cc, they've gotten better this edition, and Tomb Kings are a bit far away, IMHO.

And yes, they're not evil. They are a neutral faction, in that they interact with the highest bidder. Sure, their god wants to eat the world, but not every Ogre out there wants to eat the world. Many of them, such as Golgfag Maneater, and many others, hire themselves out as mecenaries.

Dont forget vampires have the *SPARKLE* factor!

In seriousness I think you'd be well off with Lizardmen. They have great close combat, but they are more of a defencive close combat army. Put in a Slann for some buffs and magic scarriness and that seems to be what youre looking for.

On the other hand, Empire seems to fit the bill quite well too. You stand there and shoot sure but once your opponent reaches you on turn 3 every move counts. You then need to set up and move in ways that will allow you to absorb and then hit hard to the flanks using magic to buff yourself for combat. May I personally suggest the Lore of Beasts spell which provides +1 Str and +1 T to a unit? They also have an EXTREAMELY powerful glass hammer - flaggelants. With the step up rules and supporting attacks a unit run 7 wide (+ Champion) will dish out 22 attacks at Str 5, rerolling hits and most likely also rerolling wounds! Once blew one of my 20 man saurus units to bits in one round of close combat - only 6 saurus remained alive!

Back on topic though I do think that those two are your best bets. However not as evil as you want them to be. You can always do an Empire city overrun by chaos, or a Lizards spawning pool tainted by chaos or something.

Vampire Counts are not as strong in this edition, and will become a much less popular choice, imho. This makes them attractive to me

Based on your comments about not wanting a rather straightforward close combat army, I would rule out beastmen and ogre kingdoms.

I would rule out WoC based on your comment of lots of people playing them in your area in the past/present. And I'd rule out DE because they're still one of the top tier armies (since you ruled out daemons due to being overly powerful).

That leaves skaven, which are a great choice due to being in the new starter set that is coming out, and having a new book from earlier this year, and the afore-mentioned vampire counts. Honestly, I don't think you'll see many people starting vampie counts, but a lot will be starting skaven with the new set. So, imho, it's VC ftw!

Thank you but I already own a large amount of Lizardmen as they are my main WHFB army. And I would like to stick to one of the armies I mentioned above. The whole point of this is I do not want to do what I see as a good army.

(Sorry if this next bit comes across as rude)

And for future referance to anyone replying as far as the Ogres this is not a discussion on wether or not they are evil and I won't have this topic turn off course into a discussion on Ogre ethics. I believe that Ogres are evil therefore I included them in the list end of story. Respectfully any further mentionings as to if the Ogres are evil or not will be ignored as it dosen't answer my question so please keep on track. Thank you

@RiTides: Thank you for the suggestion can I ask what makes the new DE so good now? (I haven't had a chance to look inside their dex yet and I've been out of playing for a couple months and haven't gotten the new rule book yet so I don't know how everything has changed)

Um, Daemons?

I'm ignoring what you want in this thread, because what you want is irrelevant and you sound kinda emo saying "this is what I believe so no one else post anything contrary." Tough. It's a cooperative forum. Go talk to yourself in a corner if you don't want anyone to disagree with you.

High Elves are evil because they're pompous bastards and they seek to put the world under their rule (for the good of all).

Lizardmen are evil because they follow the will of the Old Ones, which can be anything, no matter how inscrutible.

Ogres are just hungry. They are probably one of the least evil races in the game, simply because they have almost no ambition other than food. If Ogres were constantly well-fed, they'd be like really fat house cats. If you keep Skaven well-fed, they'd still be evil bastards trying to rule the world.

They made every race capable of being "evil" simple to make it logical to have battles with each other given the right circumstances.

Even Dwarfs, who are pretty solitary and aloof. They are like the fricken' Balkan states in that if someone pissed them off 800 years ago, that's cause enough for them to go to war over it today.

Please read the OP

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

@RiTides: Thank you for the suggestion can I ask what makes the new DE so good now? (I haven't had a chance to look inside their dex yet and I've been out of playing for a couple months and haven't gotten the new rule book yet so I don't know how everything has changed)

Combination of a nearly endless magic phase (until you fail to cast or run out of spells), lots of shooting (xbows are are most cost effective core), lots of monster options.

You made your point, DukeRustField, no need to beat it into the ground...

I actually haven't seen DE in 8th edition, it's just that they don't seem to have suffered a setback like the other two top tier armies of 7th edition (daemons and VC) have. They're still right up there and people don't always enjoy playing against them... at least the "power build" variety, which is what I usually see!

VC, on the other hand, got rocked by 8th edition. I think they can still be competitive, but you're going to have to be smart about it. Compared to Ogres, imho they will take a lot more finesse. Skaven would be my second choice based on your criteria, since certain builds can require a lot of cunning, although you can certainly go beat-stick with two Hell Pit Abominations if you decide to clean house. They're strong, but not as straightforward imho, which it looks like you're looking for!

I'm deffinitly looking for something with a bit more finesse then what I usually run. Don't get me wrong I've used plenty of tactics and sneaky stratigies with my other armies but they were always geared towards one purpose. Getting my guys into cc as soon as possible.

So I think I will go through my VC book (as well as get the new rule book) and see what I would do thank you.

P.S if you have any good suggestions on were I can find articles on VC strategy and optimal kits I'd appreciate it.

Here's a decent discussion (although it's a lot of speculation still, at this point) especially the last post. I'm going to research it some more because I'm curious about VC now, too. I love it when an army is not overpowered, but still competitive, and I believe they are still.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/306207.page

Casper wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

@RiTides: Thank you for the suggestion can I ask what makes the new DE so good now? (I haven't had a chance to look inside their dex yet and I've been out of playing for a couple months and haven't gotten the new rule book yet so I don't know how everything has changed)

Combination of a nearly endless magic phase (until you fail to cast or run out of spells), lots of shooting (xbows are are most cost effective core), lots of monster options.

DE RXBmen with the Flaming Sword of Rhuin are soooo wrong.

Btw my friend has Ogres and I have DE. The Ogres are really solid. We don't have very big armies (750) but the Ironguts (the Ogres with heavy armor and great weapons) are just MEAN. Normal ogres go down pretty fast but these guys just keep going. It's always pretty balanced, out of the 3 games I've played I've won 2 barely and he's barely won 1.

I'd also be interested if anyone can find some good tactics / army build articles or threads regarding VC in 8th edition!