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Can a Callidus assassin use "A Word In You Ear" to make an IC disengage from his unit? I.E. Make a Big Mek w/ KFF Leave a carpet so I can Lascannon Him to death.

On the same subject. What about units embarked in vehicles. Can I make them get out? Any other information on the limitations/uses for this ability would be useful.

Thanks.

Thaylen wrote:Can a Callidus assassin use "A Word In You Ear" to make an IC disengage from his unit? I.E. Make a Big Mek w/ KFF Leave a carpet so I can Lascannon Him to death.

On the same subject. What about units embarked in vehicles. Can I make them get out? Any other information on the limitations/uses for this ability would be useful.

Thanks.

1) I am unsure, I'll have to get my codex out. My gut instinct says no, as when an IC is attached to a unit they become a single unit. Of course, you could also claim that you are only moving the IC unit, and nothing else. Chalk it up to crap GW writing. Note that there are ways to prevent you from being able to detatch the mek with clever deployment, so it's not a very "powerful" strategy.

2) I am 100% sure. The answer is No. This is because only a unit that "begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle can disembark." Before the game there cannot have been a movement phase, so the unit will have not started a movement phase embarked. This is the same reason why you cannot disembark from a Valkyrie or Land Speeder Storm in the Scout move, even if the passengers have the Scout USR.

Wow. Really fast reply. Thanks for the advice. The first scenario might be a little too close to TFG though. The other uses of the assassin are good enough though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: Playing a little devil's advocate since you are so well versed in the rules, Gwar! When a unit w/ an IC moves IC can disengage from the unit by leaving 2" Coherency w/ the unit he is attached to. Do you think this only applies to moves in the movement phase. Or could apply to the move enforced by the Callidus.

Also. If the Callidus' 6" move doesn't follow normal movement phase rules. Can you move models over a barrier of Impassible terrain (not on top of it, jetpacks and skimmers brings an even bigger can of worms into this)? And would they take dangerous terrain tests if you ran them into/through dangerous Terrain? I know GW's crappy writing can greatly limit what can be done w/ this but it is worth asking.

Gwar! wrote:

Thaylen wrote:Can a Callidus assassin use "A Word In You Ear" to make an IC disengage from his unit? I.E. Make a Big Mek w/ KFF Leave a carpet so I can Lascannon Him to death.

On the same subject. What about units embarked in vehicles. Can I make them get out? Any other information on the limitations/uses for this ability would be useful.

Thanks.

1) I am unsure, I'll have to get my codex out. My gut instinct says no, as when an IC is attached to a unit they become a single unit. Of course, you could also claim that you are only moving the IC unit, and nothing else. Chalk it up to crap GW writing. Note that there are ways to prevent you from being able to detatch the mek with clever deployment, so it's not a very "powerful" strategy.

2) I am 100% sure. The answer is No. This is because only a unit that "begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle can disembark." Before the game there cannot have been a movement phase, so the unit will have not started a movement phase embarked. This is the same reason why you cannot disembark from a Valkyrie or Land Speeder Storm in the Scout move, even if the passengers have the Scout USR.

I can see the POV here, especially in the first one, but we've always played it that you could make a unit disembark.

The FAQ says

Q. Can ‘A Word in your Ear’ be used to move
units that are outside of the normal deployment
zone (like infiltrators or units that have already
made their Scout move) ?

A. Yes, so long as the Infiltrators, Scouts etc don’t
end up in a position they would not otherise be
allowed to deploy in.

Which we've always taken as pretty much taken as "proof" of carte blanche as to what sort of move you can make with them, so disembarking is alright.

Q. Is a Callidus Assassin’s ‘A Word in your Ear. .
.’ used before or after Scout moves are made?
A. The redeployment move and the Scouts move
are both described as happening after
deployment but before the first turn. In such
cases the best way to proceed is to dice off for
which takes priority.

we took this to mean you couldn't split of an IC as the move happens after deployment by which time he/she is no longer a single unit but merely part of a larger one.

*shrugs*

The key phrase is "don't end up in a position they would not otherwise be allowed to deploy in."

A Unit of SM Scouts deployed inside a Land Speeder Storm are not able to deploy outside it in any circumstance!

For people in scouted speeders I agree. However a tactical squad, for example, is allowed to be deployed outside of their rhino so...

..I'd take it as well that if I won the "roll off" and was going to redeploy them before they madea scout move then it'd be fine to set them up outside of their vehicle.

YMMV of course.

You guys skipped over this one...

Also. If the Callidus' 6" move doesn't follow normal movement phase rules. Can you move models over a barrier of Impassible terrain (not on top of it, jetpacks and skimmers brings an even bigger can of worms into this)? And would they take dangerous terrain tests if you ran them into/through dangerous Terrain? I know GW's crappy writing can greatly limit what can be done w/ this but it is worth asking.

It was an edit so you may not have seen it.

I'd pretty much just treat it in the same manner as Lash of submission and Pavane.

I'm vaguely familiar w/ lash. I've never even heard of Pavane. Please clarify?

Thaylen wrote:I'm vaguely familiar w/ lash. I've never even heard of Pavane. Please clarify?

Pavane is the Chaos Dæmons version that is crap!

It's in the chaos demon codex, pretty much the same as lash but d6" move max.

To clarify I mean I'd look towards what you can and can't do in the FAQs for those powers, as a guideline anyway.

Red Satan: it is a bit of a logical stretch to apply the Scout/infiltrate FAQ as Carte Blanche for disembarking.

You have a ruling that allows for the movement of models that can deploy outside of normal deployment zones to be moved the 6 inches(and those units could be much further than 6" from their defined deployment zone). And then you are stretching that ruling to mean you can do pretty much whatever the heck you want with any one unit.

I would say no to the disembarking just because you then run into the issue of just how far you get to move that disembarking unit. Do you the callidusplayer get to disembark the unit 2" from the transport and then move it the remaining 6"? Do you get to disembark the unit up to 2" and then move the remaining 4"? or does the disembarking itself count as the full movement so you only get to disembark up to 2" with no further movement?

I was thinking about arguing a situation where you can split off ICs from units(by targeting the whole unit and simply ending the move with the IC outside of 2" coherency; then creating 2 separate units) but I luckily decided to double-check The IC rules. The IC rules specifically forbid this type of thing. There are actually 2 bullet points that say no to this; the first is that IC can only ever leave a unit they are joined to in the movement phase. The second is that an IC must maintain coherency with his joined squad unless he is detaching from that squad.

As to the third query The wording is where you look; it does not say you redeploy the unit up to 6" away, it says you Move the unit up to 6" away. That would seem to indicate you follow all movement rules(no going through impassible, possibly having to take difficult terrain tests, definitely having to take dangerous terrain tests, etc.)

Where were all of you 3 months ago when I asked about a Callidus and forcing Terrain Checks!

I agree on the IC, you cannot split it off the squad. IMO it is also because if you do then you have moved 2 units 6" not 1 unit 6"

As for transports, it is trickier but I would never pull a unit out of a transport.

Are you sure it said only in the movement phase. I only remember it saying he can't leave in the shooting and assault phases. Of which Post-Deployment/Pre-game is neither.

I'll scouting my codex as your reading this incase I have to eat my words.

Edit: Found it. 4th Bullet Point.

Yeah. I'm kinda Stupid right now.

Posting and debating rules on 1 1/2 hours of sleep is never a good idea.


2nd Edit. But Since I'm on a roll, The callidus' power says move them 6", if the movement phase rules are not implied could I do something like move a squad of lootas so the memebers weren't in coherency and then had to spend the 1st turn regaining coherency instead of firing deffguns?

I've always treated it as if the movement has to leave them in a legal deployment (kinda supported by the scout/infiltrate issue) so I would say that you cannot move them out of coherency.
IMO, neither the IC separation nor the disembarkation would be allowed. AQs much as I'd like to use her to put that unit out where I can see it or make that IC a separate target, I just don't think it works.

You cannot force a unit out of coherency by splitting them up, it is usually just as effective anyway to move something you do not want to shoot behind a building or barrier (since they typically deploy there anyway) and make them walk their first turn.

If a unit is within 6" of a table edge could you move them off and into reserve?

I believe that in the section for IC it says you can only attach or leave a unit in your movement phase.

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:If a unit is within 6" of a table edge could you move them off and into reserve?

No, just.... no.

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:If a unit is within 6" of a table edge could you move them off and into reserve?

The only way to move off table is through fleeing.

Brock Ritcey: that is correct; also it is only the IC that can Join or leave units, the units cannot join an IC.

Note: Units can kind of leave an IC but since the units move activation includes the IC, if the IC stays still for that Movement phase and the Unit wanders off he has still technically left the unit in that movement phase(by not moving into coherency with them).

Why would moving off a board edge put you into Reserves?!

Kommissar Kel wrote:Red Satan: it is a bit of a logical stretch to apply the Scout/infiltrate FAQ as Carte Blanche for disembarking.

You have a ruling that allows for the movement of models that can deploy outside of normal deployment zones to be moved the 6 inches(and those units could be much further than 6" from their defined deployment zone). And then you are stretching that ruling to mean you can do pretty much whatever the heck you want with any one unit.

I can see your POV entirely, the bit we saw as useful was the " don’t end up in a position they would not otherwise be allowed to deploy in."

No 2" disembark etc etc, just a straight move the models 6" out of their transport, as long as they could normally deploy there etc etc

..wasn't there something in the planetstrike articles about using this to move people out of the bastions or am I imagining that ?

Since a unit is off the table while held in reserve was my point.

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:Since a unit is off the table while held in reserve was my point.

But moving off the table doesn't put you in Reserve anyways.

Basically same as rolling a 3 or 4 following a mishap.

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:Basically same as rolling a 3 or 4 following a mishap.

No. Not even close.

Also, look here, fifth question second column, first page--if you need text.