Autocannons, Missile Launchers, or Lascannons?

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**JSK-Fox**

For my hws in my vet squads, what weapon should I use that I put in the title?
I'm leaning a bit towards the autocannon.

In the squad, there are 3 grenade launchers (no plasma guns available), and the other, which I probably won't use, 3xflamers.

**Ailaros**

None of them. Vets are special weapons carriers. This means you should spend a big majority of your time moving in order to get in range with them (like, say with chimeras, or vendettas). Taking one heavy weapon will encourage you to waste three special weapons. Not worth it.

The only time you're ever going to be shooting a heavy weapon is if you're sitting on an objective. The problem is that vets are bad objective holders, given their small size. The only way to compensate for their small size is to kill stuff that threatens them. The best way to kill them is with those 3 special weapons.

Paying a bunch of points and mobility just for a single heavy weapon isn't going to be worth it most of the time. Oh, that and grenade launchers are a waste for the vets as well. Time to go to a bitz store so that you're not stuck with GLs and flamers, methinks.

**murdog**

It kind of depends on the rest of the list. I bring LC's before the other two, then AC's before ML's. I think the autocannon meshes well with the GL, but the ML is potentially more powerful.

**JSK-Fox**

I've decided upon an autocannon, a missile launcher, and another autocannon. I will only be using one at a time, so I can easily switch. This is for my gl troops, since this is a 500 point army, with a ccs, armoured sentinel (don't fething judge me!) and 2 vet squads.

**Jaon**

You would be better off simpley fielding a heavy weapons squad.

**JSK-Fox**

Hard when you have 2 vet squads and a ccs, and nothing else.

**schadenfreude**

Ailaros wrote:None of them. Vets are special weapons carriers. This means you should spend a big majority of your time moving in order to get in range with them (like, say with chimeras, or vendettas). Taking one heavy weapon will encourage you to waste three special weapons. Not worth it.

The only time you're ever going to be shooting a heavy weapon is if you're sitting on an objective. The problem is that vets are bad objective holders, given their small size. The only way to compensate for their small size is to kill stuff that threatens them. The best way to kill them is with those 3 special weapons.

Paying a bunch of points and mobility just for a single heavy weapon isn't going to be worth it most of the time. Oh, that and grenade launchers are a waste for the vets as well. Time to go to a bitz store so that you're not stuck with GLs and flamers, methinks.

He is really right on this one. Vets should me mechanized with melta guns. If you want a flamethrower squad PCS work great, if you want a plasma squad a CCS or Inquisitor retinue works great, but if you want melta go with melta vets.

If you want a squad with a heavy weapon to hold an objective a regular infantry platoon works better. Paying 20 points more for a single BS4 shot is just too much when a basic infantry squad costs 50 points.

JSK-Fox wrote:Hard when you have 2 vet squads and a ccs, and nothing else.

You need more troops. 20 scoring GEQ infantry models is too few even in very small games.

**Irdiumstern**

You're being given great advice so far, but my two cents are:
Grenade Launcher vet squad can be nice with a Primaris Psyker. It's not a great competitive choice, but an average of 10 Str 6 shots is pretty good. This is the only case where Grenade Launchers or Flamers MIGHT be useful in a vet squad. Otherwise, Plasma and Melta is the way to go.

Heavy weapons, well an autocannon is 10 points. It's not that much a burden points wise, and if you find yourself not needing to move a turn, and out of range of everything else, well then why not.

**vintor223rd**

it depends what you want them to kill, if you want the enemy tanks down take high strenght weapons, if you are going against a horde, take weapons with a high volume of fire.

**JSK-Fox**

I'm mainly burdened by the fact that the battleforce only contains 1 plasma gun, and I put it in my CCS. The meltagun will be used by the next vet squad, along with some converted ones.
I also only have 500 points, so of course I won't have many troops.

**Lord Commander Phyrus**

You can order a pack of melta or plasma guns from GW for about $17 AUD, what that is in canada I'm not sure but its not much. If you have trouble finding them They're in the Bitz section under weapons.

**Ailaros**

vintor223rd wrote:it depends what you want them to kill, if you want the enemy tanks down take high strenght weapons, if you are going against a horde, take weapons with a high volume of fire.

Yes, but the vets, more than likely, are going to be in chimeras, which can take a lot of machine gun shots a turn and/or heavy flamers. Giving flamers to vets not only wastes their BS, but it is also makes the squad worse against light infantry than the tank itself (at half the points).

It's why you see a lot of 3x melta and 3x plasma vets in chimeras. It's a rare opportunity to take multiple BS4 special weapons in a single squad. It really shouldn't be squandered on low-power guns.

Irdiumstern wrote:You're being given great advice so far, but my two cents are:
Grenade Launcher vet squad can be nice with a Primaris Psyker. It's not a great competitive choice

Not competitive in the slightest, but 'twould be loltastic.

"here's my ninth S6 attack... here's my ninth... to last... S6 attack."

Of course by this point, you're competing with ogryn...

**Lycaeus Wrex**

In the overall, vast scheme of things, of course it would be better to have Vets sans any heavy weapons. However, the OP is asking what heavys to give his Vets in a 500pt game. If you noticed he also said he only bought the Battleforce box, so is pretty much constricted by what he gets in that box.

I think your choices are fairly solid. Autocannons and missile launchers are decent all-purpose weapons that will be useful regardless as to who your opponent is.

When you expand that army, however, I would agree that meltas/plasma is the ideal way to equip them. For now though, you should have a fairly solid little firebase.

L. Wrex

**freddieyu1**

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:In the overall, vast scheme of things, of course it would be better to have Vets sans any heavy weapons. However, the OP is asking what heavys to give his Vets in a 500pt game. If you noticed he also said he only bought the Battleforce box, so is pretty much constricted by what he gets in that box.

I think your choices are fairly solid. Autocannons and missile launchers are decent all-purpose weapons that will be useful regardless as to who your opponent is.

When you expand that army, however, I would agree that meltas/plasma is the ideal way to equip them. For now though, you should have a fairly solid little firebase.

L. Wrex

I second the motion...

**JSK-Fox**

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:In the overall, vast scheme of things, of course it would be better to have Vets sans any heavy weapons. However, the OP is asking what heavys to give his Vets in a 500pt game. If you noticed he also said he only bought the Battleforce box, so is pretty much constricted by what he gets in that box.

I think your choices are fairly solid. Autocannons and missile launchers are decent all-purpose weapons that will be useful regardless as to who your opponent is.

When you expand that army, however, I would agree that meltas/plasma is the ideal way to equip them. For now though, you should have a fairly solid little firebase.

L. Wrex

What is this?
A straight answer?
Finally!
Thank you.

**Ailaros**

JSK-Fox wrote:A straight answer?
Finally!
Thank you.

You've already been given straight answers. The difference is that this one is the one you already wanted to hear...

**JSK-Fox**

Well, when I stat that I have bought a new bf, and have nothing else, and people tell me to outfit my guys with plasma, then it's not the straightest possible answer.

**Ailaros**

Firstly, you never said that the point of this thread was to outfit your vets with stuff from the battleforce.

Secondly, "none of them" seems pretty straightforward to me.

Finally, just because a new battleforce came with certain models doesn't mean that they should be used. Certain lists make good uses of russes, some don't. Some make good use of heavy weapons, some don't. If using the heavy weapons from a battleforce is your prime motivator, then don't take vets.

**JSK-Fox**

It was originally saying what should i give my vets in terms of hwt, but the thread flew off topic. And so, I am feeneeshed with this thread. Thanks for the help everybody.

Close please.

**Savnock**

JSK-Fox: This is an opportunity to start converting. Meltas a pretty easy to do with a bit of thick plastic rod: heck, even lengths of sprue can serve. Drill holes in them, hack the barrell off a lasgun and stick a fuel cannister on the side. Voila, instant melta.

Also, trading bitz with your fellow players can help. Does the BF come with a command squad? If so, bitz from those are really hot trades, so a few meltas or plasmas might be easy to come by.

**JSK-Fox**

Yes and, about that, it's a little late, since all but 5 shotgun guardsmen are assembled.

But yeah, I want the bits for later dudes.

**Polonius**

If you're using the vets as infantry squads at 500pts, esp on foot, than I'd go with autocannons. The armor you see at 500pts is mostly light, you can hope to plink it a little in the early stages, and at 10pts it's pretty cheap. It also meshes reasonably well with the GLs.

It's important to remember that the game is very different at 500pts than at higher levels. Vets with gls and AC are ok at that level (and under 100pts), but really don't add much at higher levels.

The rule of thumb that I use for IG heavy weapons is this: The best anti-tank gun is the melta, the best anti- heavy infantry gun is the plasma, the best anti-horde weapon is the flamer, the best anti-transport is the AC. What does that mean? Unless you really need lascannons, ACs are a fine default choice for nearly any heavy weapon application.

**JSK-Fox**

I actually decided to assemble a missile launcher and a lascannon, for a bit of variety in terms of choices. Soon, I'll have a vet squad with melta, and a chimera or two, and maybe a leman russ to boot!