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Okay, I got into a debate with a friend over what is the most efficient melta-delivery system. He said attack bikes are the best for the job.

Now, I rarely see attack bikes fielded in armies. Are they good, just hard to use? or do they suck?

no they're definitely a good multi melta delivery system. sometimes you have to suicide your unit to deliver a multi melta because of the short range. their mobility and cheapness makes them ideal for this. Their only draw back is their vulnerability to small arms fire, but their mobility can be used to keep them out of LOS
AF

I like attack bikes, but speeders can do a similar job, but can also block the movement of enemy vehicles, something attack bikes simply cannot do.

So, they are good at it, but other units are better?

Well, they are technically the "most efficient" however they just can't do some of the things that other units can.

Attack bikes are good for speeding in and blowing up tanks without drawing much fire.

I feel that land speeders are stronger for a couple of reasons. they can deep strike, they can fly over terrain, they aren't vulnerable to small arms (they die to heavy weapons but so do attack bikes), they can carry a heavy flamer (you don't always need a multi melta). For only 10 or 20 more points it's a better deal.
AF

Eh, land speeders can be hurt by bolters, and killed by them if they're in squadrons or take enough damage.

If you're talking about bringing a unit specifically for multimeltas, suggesting that the OP take a different weapon is pretty dumb.

Although a land speeder with a multi-melta *and* heavy flamer is quite nice as it can threaten both infantry and vehicles.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:I feel that land speeders are stronger for a couple of reasons. they can deep strike, they can fly over terrain, they aren't vulnerable to small arms (they die to heavy weapons but so do attack bikes), they can carry a heavy flamer (you don't always need a multi melta). For only 10 or 20 more points it's a better deal.
AF

Personally I find attack bikes a bit more durable than speeders, point for point.
Take the autocannon. This weapon will tear up speeders, but will have a much weaker effect on attack bikes. The same works for the assault cannon, and any other weapon AP 4 or greater.
The attack bike does not have that damn skimmer base, making the speeder a nice target at long range.
The attack bikes turbo-boost gives a 3+ cover, which is superior to a 4+ obscurement.

Not to discount the value of speeders. I use 2 of them in my army. I am just saying attack bikes have their place and advantages.

Those are all good points. The main thing to me is the heavy flamer, which makes the speeder so versatile.

As of right now, my general melta delivery system is 5 sternguards in a drop pod with meltaguns and combi-meltas.

I am considering experimenting with other metheds of delivery. I already have a MM land speeder storm that carries my scouts. Do not know if I should invest in the power armored version

still, 5 meltas at point blank usually means a land raider dies.

yeah. It's good for killing an armored target that isn't being screened on the 1st turn. every army needs a way to stop a rampaging land raider on turn 1.

Attack Bike Squadrons of both heavy weapons are useful.

They can be suicidal, they can turbo to lock down some support/non-combat/ranged unit in combat, they can block movement to non-vehicle units, they are cost effective for the weapons purchased.

Great contesters late game, not too bothered with taking up positions in terrain.

They are useful if one plays a water warrior game IMO. Being flexible is top priority with them.

i think it depends on your army whether or not they're useful. i play a doublewing dark angel force (only deathwing and ravenwing units in it) and a friend plays regular DA exclusively. after playing with/against DA a couple dozen times over the past year and a half, i'd say they're the most effective antivehicle unit in that codex short of a drop pod dread. since ravenwing attack bikes can scout and are already charged for the multimelta upgrade in the base cost, you have no reason not to take it. t5 2 wound 3+ bike model with scout? yes, please. if you've got first turn, you can be in multimelta half range of almost anything on a standard board.

Attack bikes are almost worth their weight in gold. I don't have any for mw new army yet and I regret buying land speeders first. With heavy bolters you'll juice light infantry with as many as 6 bolter and 9 heavy bolter shots. multi meltas make amazingly easy work of tau and eldar skimmers as well as opposing land raiders. They will attract immense attention if used as whole squads though. And if you field Forgefather He'stan multi meltas are almost compulsory lol. Just be aware they are like every other unit. They have their ups and downs. Everything has a moment.

I hated them for a while but I have started to REALLY dig them with my blood angels.

They have an impressive threat range and can stay somewhat out of sight on the way there.

Push comes to shove they can also assault.

back in 3rd edition, they were the most effective blood angel heavy weapons as they could move and fire without any hindrance (with the old physical codex, you rolled for each squad each turn and on a 1 they moved d6 IIRC towards the nearest enemy).

I favor attack bikes over Speeders. AB's are much easier to hide and they can assault the enemy. Being able to assault the enemy trumps the Speeders abilities in my opinion.

Multimeltas can be delivered efficiently by both Landspeeders, and Attack Bikes.

I like to attach a MM Attack Bike to my biker squads. I run full-strength biker units, so I can combat squad and have a few ablative wounds for my attack bike to keep firing.
When fielded as an Attack Bike Squadron, the biggest thing they have to fear is S8+ weaponry. Every wound will destroy a full attack bike. That unit of Long Fangs with missile launchers is gunning for your attack bikes. Small arms fire isn't so scary. You have a total of six wounds in a full squadron, all at T5, with a 3+ save. lasguns shouldn't bother you, nor should bolters.

Speeders have the advantage of being able to hop over terrain during normal movement, which can help you keep them alive a little longer. They also take hits on the vehicle damage chart, so those S8+ weapons might only Shake or Stun you for a turn, not vaporize two wounds in one go. Of course, this is double-edged. A stray bolter shot can eliminate your multimelta by Immbolizing the speeder, or destroying the weapon itself. If squadroned (which MM Speeders often are, for max chance to kill tanks), you can even be Wrecked by a lucky bolter shot.

Personally, I'd rather have a squadron of each, instead of one or the other. If I really HAD to choose, I'd decide based on the terrain I'm likely to see. Cityfight? Speeder. Open forest board? Attack bike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This debate swirls like a maelstrom every time someones asks this question, and it's never "resolved," because it boils down to a playstyle choice, and that's the X Factor that can't be accounted for by any sort of Mathammer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthDiggler wrote:I favor attack bikes over Speeders. AB's are much easier to hide and they can assault the enemy. Being able to assault the enemy trumps the Speeders abilities in my opinion.

I do have to ask why you'd want to assault an enemy with a unit that is designed to kill at range. A full attack bike squadron can get 9 attacks on the charge, at I4, S4. Do you really want to trade up to 6 twin-linked bolter, and 9 heavy bolter OR 6 twin-linked bolter and 3 mutlimelta shots for those 9 melee attacks?

Attack Bikes are superior...they get more tail with bikes than flying metal bowxes!!

Attack bikes are awesome simply because they make the all-bike SM army work like clockwork.

If I was going to take either 1 attack bike or 1 landspeeder, then I would take the 1 landspeeder. When it comes to full squads, then I have to vote for the attack bikes...unless you're wanting typhoon missle launchers.

TheRhino wrote:I do have to ask why you'd want to assault an enemy with a unit that is designed to kill at range. A full attack bike squadron can get 9 attacks on the charge, at I4, S4. Do you really want to trade up to 6 twin-linked bolter, and 9 heavy bolter OR 6 twin-linked bolter and 3 mutlimelta shots for those 9 melee attacks?

There are many reasons. The Attack bike can hide in assault on my opponents shooting phase. I've pulled Dark Eldar off an objective by assaulting one end of the unit and the consolidation pulled the unit off the objective on turn 7. I probably couldn't have shot them off since they would go to ground and get a 3+ cover save. I've assaulted Pathfinders in a trench who had a 2+ cover save from shooting. I have assaulted Long Fangs, after shooting them, to make sure they don't kill me with missile fire on thier shooting turn. I have even assaulted vehicles, with the krak grenades, whom I didn't kill in shooting. I just like the versatility of the AB assault.

They bring anti-infantry fire power or Anti-tank fire power.....AND a speedy utility unit at an affordable cost and durability.

IMO, best buys in the codex...and saving grace.

I think it's actuallly difficult to compare attack bikes and landspeeders..even though people do so all the time. Landspeeders, as vehicles, have all the advantages and disadvantages of vehicles. That means when they turboboost, they have crappier cover. They are harder to hide. They can be shaken or stunned. Funny enough, speeders are actually weaker to basic strength 4 shots than attack bikes, because bolter shots can turn off their shooting.
But that doesn't mean they're bad..being a vehicle allows them more firepower (2 heavies on 1 speeder), can't be locked in close combat, and can provide cover/anti-tank shock space control.

Attack bikes are a regular unit. That means they're subject to leadership, stat tests, most psychic powers, etc etc. They also, even with a multi-melta, provide very effective anti-infantry firepower, as an attack bike can fire its twin-linked bolters as well as it's heavy while moving 12". As a fast toughness 5 unit, they're also very good in tarpitting units that are strength 3, such as guardsman.

I've shot at a dreadnought near troops on an objective, blew off it's CC arm with weapon destroyed, then ran in an assaulted both units. Without the CC powerfist, the attack bikes were able to hold up and contest two units to the end of the game. A cheap 150 point unit holding up 2. You can't do that kind of strat with landspeeders.

One the flipside, I've faced mech eldar, and right before the last turn, turboboosted my landspeeders into position infront of my troops. Now the eldar can't tank shock without going through the speeders...but the 3+ no ramming on skimmer rules effectively stops the last turn Mech eldar ram. You can't do that kind of strat with attack bikes.

scuddman wrote:I I've faced mech eldar, and right before the last turn, turboboosted my landspeeders into position infront of my troops. Now the eldar can't tank shock without going through the speeders...but the 3+ no ramming on skimmer rules effectively stops the last turn Mech eldar ram. You can't do that kind of strat with attack bikes.

Excellent point

That is an excellent point.
Which comes back to the point that they are similar, but different. Each has a laudry list of pros and cons, and they are a personal choice.

I rather go out with the attack bikes and kill the skimmers, rather than to have 2-3 skimmers live the whole game without committing to then swoop in and form a wall at the end of the game.

As said in a different game: "Dead is the best debuff."

A skimmer can't dodge a ram from another skimmer.

Also, I've seen players play that a tank-shocking skimmer can voluntarily go "over" some units.

the land speeder carries a heavy flamer and is dangerous to a wide variety of targets. the attack bike is only dangerous to one kind of target. Their durability is about the same and the upgrade only costs 20 points.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:the land speeder carries a heavy flamer and is dangerous to a wide variety of targets. the attack bike is only dangerous to one kind of target. Their durability is about the same and the upgrade only costs 20 points.
AF

I think you meant to say "can carry a heavy flamer", since you listed an upgrade cost. You also have to pay for the precious multimelta.
Attack bikes are dangerous to both infantry and vehicles, as scuddman pointed out.

As has been said, they might occupy the same FOC slot, and have some overlapping upgrade/targeting options, but are different animals. One is not better than the other, because there are too many wildcards to account for on the actual table.

Protip: when in doubt, take both.