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Hello,

I have been out of the hobby for almost seven years now. A couple of weeks ago I decided to get back into the game. Bought the "new" (to me, everything is new) Black Reach Box and got stuck with the Space Marines. Now, over a month later I bought some new stuff and I am currently assembling and painting everything. So I was wondering what you guys think about this army list. Basically its just the BR Box, Armybox, one Razorback and a Scriptor.


EDIT:
Pls see new and redone List in Post #9.

Okey dok, welcome to the wonderful world of Space Marines.

I think you need to pick a direction to take your army list. I see this list and I'm confused how you intend to play it, it has alittle bit of everything and that tends not to really work. Your lucky in that a SM army can go in any direction, you just need to pick one and go with it.

Some more general advice that you can use right away is; your sternguard squad, you really need to give them all combi weapons or they just become a very expensive Tactical Squad. A squad of 5 assult marines is not very effective, this is one of those units that needs to be at full strength to be effective. If your going to run terminators, you really should think about buying a land raider, the easiest way to kill a terminator is to make you fail an armor save, expect this unit on foot to be poked to death...

Hi Chairman,

Like Catyr pointed out, it's a nice start, but there are a few adjustments I'd make too. With a little bit of tweaking though, it can be a pretty competitive list (if you want it to be). A lot of people would argue that you should play a "Fluff-heavy" list or a "Strictly competitive" list, and I think what Catyr means (and please correct me if I'm wrong), is which of these two styles you'd like to play, because, quite frankly, I haven't seen any other way of playing that either works very well most of the time (like the competitive style) or is a lot of to play and to be seen played on a tabletop (like the fluff-heavy style).

That being said, I'm just going to point out a few things with your list that I feel could help you a bit, just in general. And whether or not you decide which style you prefer, you can adjust it yourself accordingly.

ChairmanMeow wrote:
HQ:
Captain 140
- Relic Blade, Hellfire rounds

Librarian 125
- Terminator Armour, Smite and Machine Curse

Great start with the Captain, however, in this current state, he isn't adding much to the list as far as anything unique, where the Librarian brings an assortment of specialty. If you have the points to spend on a Captain, I’d rather invest them into the Librarian, and make him more durable. A Storm Shield will go very far, since he doesn’t normally come with an Invul Save. And being in Terminator Armor would make him Relentless, so using Vortex of Doom would be a viable choice in Psychic Powers also. And if you go with only one Shooting Power and take a power that can be used in another phase, an Epistolatory would make him a lot more versatile.

ChairmanMeow wrote:
TROOPS:
Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher

Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher

Scouts 75
- 5 Sniperrifles

Scouts 85
- Heavy Bolter, 4x Bolter

Razorback 45
- twin-linked H. Bolter, dozer blade

Razorback 80
- twin-linked Lascannon, dozer blade

Good choices in Tact and Scout weapons, however, if you intend on taking 10 Scouts total with only 1 heavy weapon upgrade, you might as well make them into a single squad, and combat squad them. Take 4 Sniper Rifles, and 4 CC/Bolt Pistols. Give the Sgt a Power Weapon of some variant, and combat squad him with the 4 CC/BP’s. Then you can put the Sniper Rifles and your Heavy Bolter in the back, and shoot from far range.

ChairmanMeow wrote:
ELITE:
Dreadnought 105
- Multimelta, CCW, Stormbolter

5 Terminators 230
- Assault Cannon

5 Sternguard Vets 150
- Plasmagun, Powersword

Nice choices here as well, but personally, I’d rather go with the Cyclone Missile Launcher for the Terminators. It’s the same amount of points as the Assault Cannon, but it provides more modes of fire, and a stronger punch when you need it.

And like Catyr said, you’d probably be better off with Combi-weapons for the Sternguard instead. Power weapons are generally, IMHO, wasted points in a Sternguard b/c they’re biggest strength is in their shooting capabilities. But if you find it necessary, then by all means, go for it.

ChairmanMeow wrote:
FAST ATTACK:
5 Assault SM 120
- Powersword, Meltabombs

Also, to quote Catyr, Assault Marines are something you want to take at maximum capacity for 100% effectiveness. That’s not to say they aren’t effective at all, but in this lists current state, they don’t exactly contribute much other than as a diversion from your Elite choices. If you use them as a diversion, don’t bother taking any special weapons or upgrades, but if you do manage to max out the unit, definitely give them both of the Special Weapons they’re allowed (Plasma Pistols and Flamers).

ChairmanMeow wrote:
I was thinking it like this: The TSs get split up. 2x 5 with 2 RL stay back, together with the snipers. Sternguard and Captain into one Razorback and another 5-Man Marine Squad into the other one. Bolter-Scouts infiltrate. All supported by ASM and deep striking Terminators. For the 5 extra Points someone will get meltabombs or something

Good strategy to start. I’m personally not a fan of Deep Striking Terminators or Assault Squads because of the scattering mishaps. If you have the points to invest in Teleport Homers for the Sgt’s, then it’s not as bad. Otherwise, I’d highly consider starting them on the field. Also, I would try to find the points for a 3rd Razorback as well, for the last Combat Squad you have.

All in all though, it’s a great start. Certainly better than what I started with, for sure! *lol*

Hope my advice helped, and good luck!

Captain is a ok melee HQ choice but that's it. You can have other units do the same job. I would consider a Chaplain or Librarian which actually benefit the army or unit. Though, if you're keeping the Captain artificer armour and storm shield make him unstoppable!

I would ditch the Scouts and get another Tactical Squad with transport, btw those Razorbacks should be fitted out the same.

Rest of the list has too much of everything but not enough. Firstly you need transports for those elite units, I'd probably ditch the Terminators as you need a Land Raider and go Sternguard with Pedro Kantor - Kantor makes Sternguard scoring btw so you then won't need so many Tactical Squads

Ditch the Assault Squad.

Thank you all for the detailed answers!

Im almost sold on the Land Raider. This List is mostly just to "use as much units as possible with the AoBR- and Army Box". BTW, I think i would like a competitive list better.

I was allready thinking about ditching the Captain and des ASM Squad. That would be enough for a Land Raider. I allready experienced the "poking to death" scenario with my deep striking Termis against IG.

The Models that are in the List right now, are all in my posession and are being assembled these days.

Making the Librarian more powerfull would be the way to go. Together with the Termi Squad and the Land Raider would he give me a pretty nead unit.

Im not quite sure yet if I want to give my Bolter Scouts a H-Bolter or the Rocketlauncher. I didnt give the snipers a heavy weapon because the 4 Rifles would go to waste if I shoot on a vehicle with the RL. The snipers are only for "soft" targets. Well, the Heavy Bolter would fit perfectly for that ... guess I answered my own question...
BUT, since I didnt glued my Scouts yet, should I go with CCW+Pistol or Bolters?

Im also thinking about "degrading" one of the Razorbacks to a Rhino to be able to get a 10 Man Squad to where the action is. On the one hand, by doing so, I would loose two heavy weapons (one in the Squad at least for the first turn and one on the RB). On the other hand, if I place two 5-Man Combat Squads with Rocketlaunchers in the back, I basically waste 8 Bolters.

I think I´ll post a new "reworked" list these days.

Unfortunately, with the way Combat Squading works, you're always going to have a few guys that aren't being used all of the time. However, that being said, it would be better, IMHO, to have 4 guys in the back not shooting at much, than to have those 4 guys involved in more shooting and assaults, and having the Heavy Weapon do nothing. I know in your head the ratios don't really add up, but generally speaking, I find that having the Heavy Weapon available (almost) every turn to shoot is a big asset. So I'd keep the Razorbacks, and Combat Squad your guys, leaving the Heavy Weapon and 4 other guys in the back, and the rest of them push forward.

Land Raiders are great for transporting Terminators and the like models with Terminator armor. Their biggest problem though, is their cost. I generally discourage people from playing Land Raiders in games that are less than 3000 points, but in your case, being that you're still learning and collecting models, you should use what works for you best. Because I'm going to be honest with you... Any list that's less than 3000 points that carries a Land Raider in it is losing a lot of points where it can be invested into something that can contribute more to the effectiveness of the army. In your case, since you've decided to go "competitive", it wouldn't be as helpful to you.

For your Scouts, I would definitely go with CC/BP's, instead of the Bolters. Either that, or with Shotguns, and the biggest reason why is the fact that you can assault with both combinations. Having Bolters wouldn't allow you to assault, and with Scouts, you always want to be on the move with them. The only reason why they should ever stay still is because you've armed them with Sniper Rifles.

I came up with two new lists. The reason why I stick with 1.5k points is, that there is a 1.5k fun/mini tournament in my local GW Store every friday.

FIRST LIST

HQ:
Captain 155
- Relic Blade, Hellfire rounds, Artificer Armour

TROOPS:
Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher
- Razorback with twin-linked Lascannon and dozerblade 80

Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher
- Razorback with twin-linked H. Bolter and dozerblade 45

Scouts 85
- 4 Sniperrifles, H. Bolter

Scouts 85
- Kombi-Flamer, 4x CCW

ELITE:
Dreadnought 135
- TL Lascannon, CCW, Stormbolter

10 Sternguard Vets 300
- Plasmagun, Powerfist, 1 Kombi-Melta, 2 Kombi-Plasma
- Drop Pod 35

FAST ATTACK:
10 Assault SM 235
- Powersword, Meltabombs, Flamer, Plasmapistol
________________
1500


SECOND LIST

HQ:
Librarian 140
- Terminator Armour + Stormshield, Smite and Machine Curse

TROOPS:
Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher
- Razorback with twin-linked Lascannon 75

Tactical Squad 170
- Flamer, Missile Launcher
- Razorback with twin-linked H. Bolter 40

Scouts 85
- 4 Sniperrifles, H. Bolter

Scouts 75
- 5x CCW

ELITE:
Dreadnought 135
- TL Lascannon, CCW, Stormbolter

5 Terminators 230
- Assault Cannon
- Land Raider Crusader + Multimelta 260

FAST ATTACK:
5 Assault SM 120
- Powersword, Meltabombs
______________
1500


Nevertheless, since I have all the models for it, I will use the list from the first post over the next weeks; get some experience and see what I need. Still, input for these two lists is highly needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rurouni Benshin wrote:For your Scouts, I would definitely go with CC/BP's, instead of the Bolters. Either that, or with Shotguns, and the biggest reason why is the fact that you can assault with both combinations. Having Bolters wouldn't allow you to assault, ...

FYI, Scouts with Bolters CAN shoot prior to an assault, cause they are equipped with Bolters AND Boltpistols.

Second list is better but change Librarians powers to nullzone, switch Scouts for Tactical Squad and Razorback - fit them all with lascannons. Ditch the Dreadnought, in fact keep the Dreadnought make it rifleman (2 x autocannons) and get another one same setup and ditch the Assault Squad. List will be sorted then with those changes.

Btw - Land Raiders work fine in lists no lower than 2k, which you should take 2. Saying Raiders don't belong in lists below than 3k is rubbish because who plays 3k? And if you take 2 even in 3k it's only 1/3 of your army. Double Land Raiders in 2k take half the points, still enough to get Tactical Squads and several other units.

After some time of testplaying and my first mini-tournament (came in 6th out of 8). I came up with a new list. I will test this one next week. Input needed mostly on tactics and small changes as well as equipment and libby powers.

HQ:
Librarian
- Terminator Armour, GoI, Nullzone

Librarian
- GoI, Force Dome

TROOPS:
Tactical Squad
- Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, Powerfist
- Razorback with twin-linked Lascannon and dozerblade

Tactical Squad
- Flamer, Missile Launcher, Combi-Flamer
- Razorback with twin-linked H. Bolter and dozerblade

ELITE:
Dreadnought
- Multimelta, CCW, Stormbolter
- Drop Pod with locator beacon

8 Sternguard Vets
- Powerfist, 2 Kombi-Melta, 2 Kombi-Plasma

5 Terminators
- Cyclone Missile Launcher

FAST ATTACK:
5 Assault SM
- Powersword, Meltabomb
_____________________
1480 Points

Thats the list I can pull off with the minis I have right now. Next thing to buy will be Assault Termies to replace the Tactical Termies. After that, I will have 50 points to spent. First thing in mind would be to promote one of the libbies to a epistolary. Another option would be to ditch the two Razorbacks and use normal Rhinos instead. That would give me another 40 points to promote or buy new stuff.

EDIT: I still have a Dreadnought arm with a TL Lascannon, that would also be a option. Since I want to drop him in the first turn, I would have a sure hit with a TL weapon...
I also have two 5 man squads of scouts. One squad with sniper rifles and one with CCW. I used them in the tournament and they were pretty much useless (the snipers didnt do any damage and the CC Squad got slaughtered), so I dumped them for my new list.

Thank you all for reading!