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It isn't fluffy, but I was trying to min/max as powerful an unstoppable wall of power armor as I could. Please tell me why this would fail against all comers of the same point cost.

NEW NULLYFIERS 2500

HQ

Chaos Lord + Daemon Weapon(deathscreamer) + Mark of Tzeentch
x 2
total 290

Elites

5 Chosen Chaos Space Marines + 3 Melta Guns + 2 Flamers
x2
Total 260

Troops

10 Chaos Space Marines + Aspiring Champion + Power Weapon + Combi-Melta + 2 MeltaGuns + Icon of Slaanesh + Rhino
x3
Total 795

10 Chaos Space Marines + 2 PlasmaGuns + Icon of Chaos Glory + Rhino
x3
Total 675

Heavy Support

Land Raider + Daemonic Possesion
x2
Total 480

Army Total = 2500


Pretty strait foward, but.

Lords each hook up with a unit of chosen inside a land raider each. These move foward while firing and drawing heavy fire; hoping to get those suicide squads into assault with the most expensive possible enemy unit. Deathscremer lords shoot d6 then assault together with chosen.

Rhinos all move foward max to desired location and pop smoke.

PlasmaGun squads camp objectives

MeltaGun Squads seek to either annihilate heavy armor, anti-tank, or just plain assault a unit to tie it up in combat.


So, dakka. It is not a Lash list; so tell me why it would fail horribly, because I am sure I have overlooked something glaring. But really, I think even against hordes and blobs there is sufficient power to deal with it.


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edit: also please suggest point modifications where it would cause to stengthen overall force. In particular I am wondering about the point value of the aspiring champs.

Not enough blast templates.

Your CSM units could be a little better in assault too. That second unit needs a power fist/sword or something. There's a little too much plasma+ weapons,not enough templates or flamers. You've got those chosen, but those won't be able to handle everything.

Try defilers. That battlecannon is your friend:3 Vindicators are kewl too. Just realized this army has to get pretty close to use anything besides the lascannons.

Don't you think Berserkers would be better in a Rhino Rush?
At least a unit or two?

And kudos on taking the Deathscreamer! I'm more of a fan of ..the Blissgiver myself, but YMMV.

Thank you all for your replies. I am eager to discuss the subject.

I didn't take khorne bezerkers because despite being "assault oriented", they are initiative 4, cost more, and don't get two sepcial weapons or bolters, and can't assault out of rhinos. just plain less verstile once they finish assaulting that first unit.

I think its possible for the melta units to go 1 flamer 1 melta instead and freeing up 15 points towards something else.

I didn't put a power weapon on the plasma squad because their sole purpose is to camp objectives or cover and fire their bolters. That would be 30 points minimum each for a task they are not intended for.

The whole idea is to advance on the enemy army asap. I was hoping that the Land Raiders would soak up just about everything the enemy could throw at them on turn 1, thus leaving the 6 rhinos unscathed to drop off their contents and tank shock for the remainder of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit: I could leave the combi Melta on, take 1 flamer instead of the 2nd melta, and put dozer blades on each melta squad's rhino? Would this improve or reduce overall efficiency?


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edit: In addition, I could drop 1 plasma gun each on the plasma squads in exchange for a autocannon each, drop the dozer blades and keep the falmers on the melta squads. This would free up 30 points; but would it be a worthwhile exchange; and then where to put that 30 points?

Ah, I see. I usually don't like to camp with plamsa thoughl, but I understand.

The land raiders work...But I wouldn't put too much faith in them. It's easy to destroy a land raider with the right stuff.

Ex, IG can handle land raiders quite easily with leman russes or manticores or anything really. Tyranids have Psychic Lance or whatever it's called. Other space marines have chainfists and powerfists and multimelta dreadnoughts :3

You can probably handle things like orks or eldar, maybe tau (if they aren't using hammerheads), but without those land raiders, the rest of your transports will be easy targets after the smoke wears off

Have you thought about maybe plauge marines to camp on objectives, T5 and feel no pain are a nightmare to get off objectives. Even an assualt unit gets stuck without bonus due to the Defensive grenades.

Yeah, I'd replace the "assault" troops with berserkers, and the "campers" with Plague Marines. Not really a huge fan of terminator lords, I prefer DPs for only 20 points more you can have to lash princes, or just get one with wings and warptime at 155.

And if you really wanna keep vanilla troops then throw in some lascannons into those squads that camp, and put some obliterators in. Put your assault troops in the LR not Rhinos, and put the chosen in rhinos and let them outflank with their meltaguns.

While defensive grenades are certainly to be considered (as being awesome), its just a matter of the exorbitant cost of 23 points per model for a one wound model.

There is a 70 point difference between current plasma squad and a 10 man equivalent plague marine squad. For three objective sitting squads that means freeing up 220 points; which is what it would cost to get a whole nother unit. That would make the after

While I certainly think the incorporated mark of nurgle (itself too damn expensive) and defensive grenades are great wargear as far as stats go, what I want out of these units is to make it to turn 5 while on an objective; and as a bonus, to be shooting at targets not currently in combat. Toward this goal, I want to keep them cheap cheap but still unlikely to rout.

Because attacking them (and they must be attacked to win most games) is not assaulting the assaulting specialist squads that can't bee too far off; there are five of them afterall.



I really think that in terms of target staration, this list allows me to accomplish a lot. Even after drop-off, 6 tank shocking rhinos denying movement are still going to take up opportunity cost to destroy. Likewise, Land Raiders that MUST be actually blown up to remove their danger (their footslogging contents). All this meanwhile leaves 6-12 small blast templates a turn being shot, 24-48 bolter shots a turn; And after that 3 squads of I5 meltagun troops.

I am thinking that it is just too much to handle before I am able to enage the anti-tank and expensive enemy units in hand to hand combat

the sheer amount of troops rushing up in rhinos is interesting- but it seems like you'd have trouble fighting horde armies. With 0 blasts and 4 flamers as the only templates in the army IG/Nid/Ork horde builds could eat up the list

The only change I'd really make is drop enough CSM to put 8 Berserkers and the Lords in each Land Raider. Maybe giving the Lords combi weapons to make up for the loss in Special Weapons.

Berserkers destroy Orks.

You only need 7 plague marines and they will still survive alot longer on an objective than 10 normal chaos marines and 7 keeps with the fluff.

Here is an interesting question: How valuable or detrimental would the replacement of one plasmgun with a autocannon or missile launcher be on the camping troops? Lasguns are out due to their cost, and prevalence of meltas. On CSM or Plagues. I'm crunching the numbers on the plagues still.


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edit: nevermind; plagues can't carry heavy weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is an alternative list:

NEW NULLYFIERS 2500 REVISITED

HQ

Chaos Lord + Daemon Weapon(deathscreamer) + Mark of Tzeentch
x 2
total 290

Elites

5 Chosen Chaos Space Marines + 3 Melta Guns + 2 Flamers
x2
Total 260

Troops

10 Chaos Space Marines + Aspiring Champion + Power Weapon + Combi-Melta + 2 MeltaGuns + Icon of Slaanesh + Rhino
x2
10 Chaos Space Marines + Aspiring Champion + Power Weapon + Combi-Melta + 1 MeltaGun + 1 Flamer + Icon of Slaanesh + Rhino
Total 790

7 Plague Marines + 2 PlasmaGuns + Rhino
x3
Total 678

Heavy Support

Land Raider + Daemonic Possesion
x2
Total 480

Army Total = 2498