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I new to playing the game. I've only played in a coulple of games with my sons and some of there friends. Were all fairly new with my sons and friends only started playing maybe 4 months ago. But I have been building my Dark Angels army for over 3 years and I'm close to having them over 11,000 points. I think having my pieces helped bring them into the 40K world.

Due to work I've only been able to make one real 40K tourney. At the event I went to, my youngest son and I were building our teams and another player came over and said that a large part of my pieces were illiegal and we couldnt use them. I've build my pieces and painted them as shown in the 2007 Dark Angels codex. But some of the pieces and stats only came out in the 2009 Space Marines codex and the Apocalypse books. I remember seeing a picture of them before in D.A. colors and built them that way. Heres the ones I have that he said I couldnt use:

Land Raider Redeemer
Land Raider Terminus Ultra
Ironclad Dreadnought
Land Speeder Storm
Thunderfire Cannon
3-Scout Bike Squad with cluster mines
Sternguard Veteran Squad
Vanguard Veteran Squad
The 4 Lead Company Masters

He also told us we couldnt use one of my drop pods either since I had given it the missile launcher that came with the model kit because it wasnt listed in my codex. The other one I put the storm bolter in.

The only one I think I messed up on was I built the Lead Venerable Dreadnought in Deathwing colors as shown in my codex, but was using the stats from the 09 Space Marine codex. I had missed the fact I could upgrade one of my regular ones to a Venerable.

I thought the generic Space Marine Codex was just updating existing figures/vehicles and adding those that came out later. Can you use pieces that do not appear in your codex, because they came out after your last revision did? If you can when will Games-Workshop update the rules/FAQ to show you can?

All I know is that the guy who complained treated both of us like we shouldnt even be there. It made me feel like never going again and just getting rid of everything.

You can only use units from the Current Space Marines codex in a Space Marines army. You cant use some units from the Space Marines codex and some from the Blood Angels or Dark Angels condex.

With few exceptions (and this isn't one of them) you can't use units from different books in the same army. Space Marines and Dark Angels are completely separate armies even though many of their units resemble each other. Apocalypse units generally aren't allowed in tournaments. Apocalypse is a set of expansion rules for very large games with a relaxed attitude regarding force composition.

If it's in your Dark Angels codex you can use it if you want to play Dark Angels, if it's in the Space Marine Codex you can't use it if you're playing Dark Angels. You can only use one codex.

Having said that it doesn't sound like there was any reason for the guy to be a punk to you.

So a couple thousand points of what I built is illegal. Just wonderful.

Thanks everyone.

Don't forget the magic of 'count as' and proxying. I don't know the differences between the Dark Angels and the vanilla Marines codexes, but I'm guessing alot of the units are similar? In that case what's wrong with saying a special Dreadnought doesn't count as just a regular one? Or your special Veteran squads? Run them as more vanilla Marines if you wish.

Counts as and proxying are wonderful things really.

Charley359 wrote:So a couple thousand points of what I built is illegal. Just wonderful.

Thanks everyone.

remember, if you want to play space marines, who happen to have the same paint scheme as dark angels, that's gravy, but you can't mix and match between different codexes with what you want.

what you see is what you get, people can be donkey-caves about, you probably want to get some magnets off of ebay and magnetize some of your weapons to avoid that in the future.

So a couple thousand points of what I built is illegal. Just wonderful.

Thanks everyone.

It's fine as long as you play by the rules. I can have an army that has been painted to represent Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Ultramarines all mixed together if i want. In the old days it was called a crusade force. However they must follow the rules from only one of those codexes. Remember people run Worldeatesr Chaos space marines using the rules from Space wolves codex. So you don't have to repaint anything, just make it clear which codex you are using for the rules.

In the extreme case, I could have an allstar team, with different chapters in the same unit....but my army must follow the rules of one codex. That's why playing a home made chapter is great. I can use any codex I choose, on any given day.

So If I understand correctly. I can use the generic Space Marines codex to build my force. The only thing I lose is the named Dark Angels characters.

So I can use an Interrogator-Chaplain and/or a Company Master as my HQ instead of Belial or Azreal.

The only piece I lose is the Land Raider Terminus Ultra, since its an "Apocalypse game only" piece.

Yes. I played my Blood Angel Army using the space marine codex for a long time. Just use one book and make sure everyone knows what book you're using.

Not quite. There is no interrogator chaplain in the C:SM - instead there is just a Chaplain. I'm not sure on the difference.

The C:SM has a Chapter Master, and a Captain. You can use the Belial or Azreal model to represent either of those, so long as the equipment they have can be purchased in the C:SM and follows WYSIWYG

So If I understand correctly. I can use the generic Space Marines codex to build my force. The only thing I lose is the named Dark Angels characters.

So I can use an Interrogator-Chaplain and/or a Company Master as my HQ instead of Belial or Azreal.

The only piece I lose is the Land Raider Terminus Ultra, since its an "Apocalypse game only" piece.

At least! You could also use the Dark Angels characters as long as the rest of the army also follows the Dark angels Codex. Its fine to use any terminators as Deathwing, as long as you follow the rules in the Dark Angels Codex. So don't sweat it. Just pick whatever 1 codex you want to use that day and follow the rules. They could be bright pink if you wanted.

yeah many of those models that you have are not in the Dark Angels codex unfortunately.

I'm anxious now to get home and open up the SM codex. She what my difference is in points and go from there.

Thank you again everyone for the answers. Should have been coming here from the beginning.


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rdlb wrote:Yes. I played my Blood Angel Army using the space marine codex for a long time. Just use one book and make sure everyone knows what book you're using.

This is the army my eldest son is building. I will let him know this too, when both of us get home from work this evening.

With the use of some magnets and some bits, most of that army is still salvageable as Dark Angels.

As it has been said you can only use the DA codex. Other SM don't apply to you. With that said...

A buddy of mine, who is on here plays DA. He just started also. I have seen some people on here try to talk him out of playing them. Main reason...old codex armies are as good as the newer ones, well to some people. The truth be known, that's not true at all. Though there are some things that will hinder you due to the old codex, you'll find plenty of ways to make up for that...trust me.

Have fun, play what you want to play...take pleasure in beating an opponent that thinks "old marines" aren't worth having.

I got one word for you. Terminators as troops...that's awesome.

My buddy's user name is solofalcon1138, hit 'em up.

I play Black Templars, that's an old Codex...I have fun with them...

Take care.

When you have a new list post it up on the amry list section, and people will let you know if its a legal build or not. they might also give you other bits of info you didn't know, and advice (which you can listen to or ignore cause everyone on here has an opinion . . . i guess thats why its called a forum )

Thanks swordbrotherjim. I will look him up and let him know what I have. He might have some really good tips for me.

I only started building/painting them because Dark Green is my favorite color. But as I have read their fiction online and some of the books about them I have come to really love them.

My eldest boy loves Black and Red so he went with the Blood Angels. My youngest boy was going to do orks, but after using my DA. Right now every army he has built has Belial as HQ with a couple of DW Terminator squads as his troops. He now wants to build his own SM faction or take mine. And my son in law just started playing Eldar.

One of there friends who plays Tyranids mostly started with a "Build your Own" Space Marine chapter based on ancient Greece. They all have Spears and Shields with ancient Sparta markings on them along with there bolters. He is Greek by the way and his grandparents our maybe 30 minutes from Sparta today.


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Lucid wrote:When you have a new list post it up on the amry list section, and people will let you know if its a legal build or not. they might also give you other bits of info you didn't know, and advice (which you can listen to or ignore cause everyone on here has an opinion . . . i guess thats why its called a forum )

I will post what I have as Dark Angels and let all of you tell me if its legal. Then I will also put together the pieces that go with the regular SM codex and make sure that is all correct. Now I really want to go play a game because its quiting time at work. Bye

Charley359 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

rdlb wrote:Yes. I played my Blood Angel Army using the space marine codex for a long time. Just use one book and make sure everyone knows what book you're using.

This is the army my eldest son is building. I will let him know this too, when both of us get home from work this evening.

The new BA codex is great! So you probably won't be tempted by Codex Space Marines--the old Codex Blood Angels was a magazine article that left a lot to be desired. It was still fun but just kind of got old quick...

There are a lot of cool characters in the Space Marine Codex and the Land Speeder Storm...Land Speeder Storm...mmmmmmmmmmm


Also, there are rules for tournaments, but when playing with family or friends you can just decide to try stuff out and forget about the rules. Just discuss it beforehand and you'll probably come up with all kinds of fun combos

Besides, with 11,000 points, you can use your Apocalypse stuff for an Apocalypse game!

Secondarily, tournaments are not for casual gaming. It's preferable to play the majority of one's games outside of tournaments to get the hang of playing and have some noncompetitive fun out of it. Tournaments are formal competitions. They must disqualify armies that do not comply with the rules.

Raxmei wrote:Secondarily, tournaments are not for casual gaming. It's preferable to play the majority of one's games outside of tournaments to get the hang of playing and have some noncompetitive fun out of it. Tournaments are formal competitions. They must disqualify armies that do not comply with the rules.

This is what we had been doing. At least my boys most of the time. But my son and I hadnt decided what we were going to use yet and were trying to build for it. When this guy shows up and started looking over my stuff and the "Good Times" feeling went out the door.

But as far as what I have to build from. All of them have been built to look like the photos in the DA codex. From the DA codex I have:

6-5 men Deathwing Squads with 3 of them having a Cyclone ML, 2 having an Assault Cannon, and 1 with the Heavy Flamer.
2-5 men Deathwing Assault Squads with most of them using Hammers & Storm Shields and a few Lightning claws.
1-5 men DA Command Squad
7-10 men Tactical Squads
2-10 men Assault Squads
2-10 men Devastator Squads, and I have the arms/weapons to build another squad of them if I get the bodies.
1-10 men Scout Squad with 4 of them using Sniper rifles.
1-10 men DA Veteran Squad
1-7 Bike Ravenwing Squad, 6 regular and 1 Assault Bike.

Techmarine in full servo-harness w/4 servitors, 2 having Heavy Bolters
Azreal
Sammael
Asmodai
Ezekial
Beltor
Custom Belial with power sword and storm bolter
Company Master
Interrogator-Chaplain in Term. Armor
Terminator Librarian, Captain, Apothecary
Chaplain
Librarian
Ravenwing Apothecary

Land Speeder Tornado
Land Speeder Typhoon
DW Land Raider Crusader
Predator Annihilator
Predator Destructor
Vindicator
Razorback
Drop Pod w/storm bolter
2 Rhinos
2 Whirlwinds, 1 each with the 2 different missile launchers
2 regular and 1 Venerable DW Dreadnought

Then there is the pieces painted in DA colors, but as I have been told our Ultramarine only.
Land Raider Redeemer
Land Raider Terminus Ultra
Land Speeder Storm
Ironclad Dreadnought
Thunderfire Cannon
Drop Pod w/ DW Missile Launcher
3 men Scout bike squad w/cluster missiles
4 men Lead company masters set
10 men Vanguard Veteran Squad
10 men Sternguard Veteran Squad


I think this covers my entire army. The only piece I dont own and would like to get is the lead Sgt. Naaman.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did forget to add. I also have Cypher and a 5 men "Fallen Angels" squad to help him out. They're modeled/painted after the photo of them in the 2007 White Dwarf issue previewing the Dark Angels.

In 3 years you got all this?! MEIN GOTT!

I have a friend, he's on here sometimes, who also loves DA, although the cheeze that is the salamanders has pretty much stopped him from playing in dresses...

With that array of models you can easily play ANY 1500 or 1850 standard point list with either DA or SM codex. It's not that 2k of your points is legal it's that you have so much stuff that by nature is excluded by some codices. I recommend the SM codex to be honest. You can use 'counts as' to represent your DA flavored named heroes as Chaplain Cassius or other heroes of similar power and flavor to the ones you use. Just let your opponents know you are playing SM who happen to be green. You have enough vehicles and squads to make very effective lists. I really think that despite your bad experience from trying to move from uber casual to competitive overnight that you are easily on the right track.