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So I had 2 games today, not a league yet, just warm ups - no kickoff table as we forgot the paper.

My list - Orcs
4 Black Orcs
4 Blitzers
2 Linemen
1 Thrower
2 Rerolls

His list - Dwarves
5 Linemen
2 Blitzers
2 Slayers
2 Runners
3 Rerolls

The problem was that I would do a 3 man cage type thing on the egde of the board, but he would just stand there blocking my way with his 2 runners and sometimes a blitzer for all 8 turns, then in his half push me back, run through a gap with a runner and get far infield and then pass so far that I have no hope of getting near him before his next turn. If I do, he only needs a 3+ to get out of my tackle zone!

One thing that just PISSED ME OFF was his REDICULOUS amout of block. It was on everything but the runners!

Granted, I did roll lots of for blocks, and he went for a ton of one-die blocks and rolled pretty much nothing but twos, fives, and sixes for them, (to clear this up, we didnt have a block die so we used a chart - 1 is , 2 is both down, 3 and 4 were push, 5 is defender down, and 6 is defender stumbles) so alot of it was the dice gods being angry at me today.

Could people give me some advice as to how to play and score with my orcs, how to move the cage correctly, and how to get past rediculous amounts of block?

Dwarves are very powerful in low-TV leagues. They lose a lot of their advantage once everyone has block.

Try to keep the main body of your team near the center of the field. If you go to one sideline, the opponent will have ample opportunity to bottle you up (especially teams like dwarves that can put block/guard players all over the place, making it difficult to move). Also, because the trollslayers have frenzy, they'll take advantage and crowd-surf your players.

By sticking in the middle, you'll force the dwarves to spread out just a little bit and play a shallower defense to cover both wings. Your black orcs should be able to keep pressure in the middle until something pops and you can move the cage slightly to one side and push on through for the TD. Once you crack a dwarf line, the TD is fairly easy because they aren't fast enough to get back into position.

But that poses the same problem. Anyone who is not engaged will just run to the middle as fast as they can, and anyone who is will try to dogde out, only needing a 3+ (or 4+ for some of them), and then run over and get in my way.

He doesnt care if I try to pass because, lets face it, even with the thrower I'm not that great at passing (at least not until I skill him up and get accurate and then strong arm)

If I do pass I usually fail either to throw or to catch, and then he goes in with 2 men and has one assist the other with a blitz, either pushes me away or knocks me down and then brings over his runner and picks up the ball.

Then there's the front line. In the front line I would set up my Black Orcs along the middle, one space between each. But then he sets up with his men all in one perfect line, and does this:
X is enemy
B is black orc
0 is empty space
P is assisting enemy

P-X-P-X-P-X-P
B-0-B-0-B-0-B

He just has the P's assist the X's to attack the Black orcs. Its just really irritating because I need my thrower in back and my blitzers on the sides. So he rolls one die blocks (like 30 or 40 of them over the course of 2 games) and only got a 1 about 2 or 3 times.

Blood Bowl is a game of assists. If he's getting assists on your black orcs, then you need guys in between to cancel them out.

Against dwarves you'll be facing a line vs. line scrum like in rugby until one side of the line pops and you can move the entire cage down the field, maybe 2-3 spaces a turn until you get them all pushes out of the way and are safe to run. He has block, but you have strength 4, so ultimately, if you position your players well, you should have statistical odds of getting him out of the way.

He may have a shed load of block but the key thing to remember when playing low level dwarves is movement!!!

Dwarves are incredibly slow so if you position your BOBs properly then you can get them out of position pretty easily.

In regards to the LOS you need to taylor this to whether you are kicking or receiving, if you are kicking just put 2 linos and a blitzer/BOB on the LOS as your opponent can then only make 4 blocks in his first turn and avoid putting anyone within 2 squares of the sideline as frenzy will hurt you, with the slayers having block and you without I would quite happily throw -2d blocks as long as I have a RR in reserve.

If you are kicking front load the LOS and batter as many dwaves as he puts in front of you. When you cage make sure that you position so that as many of your players are in contact as possible with his and as long as your BOBs are in the right place you should win the bash game.

Tactical fouls are also a must against low level dwarves to counteract all that block so if you see a slayer or runner laying on the floor BOOT him hard!!!

easilyamused wrote:In regards to the LOS you need to taylor this to whether you are kicking or receiving, if you are kicking just put 2 linos and a blitzer/BOB on the LOS as your opponent can then only make 4 blocks in his first turn and avoid putting anyone within 2 squares of the sideline as frenzy will hurt you, with the slayers having block and you without I would quite happily throw -2d blocks as long as I have a RR in reserve.

If i do this then he will get his 3-4 blocks, push me back, and then just not follow up so in my turn the only thing I can hope to do is a simple blitz. Then our lines are separated and all he does is stand there until the second quarter. Would it be better to fully build up my line with 7 guys on the LoS in the middle to just start bashing in heads? Then keep pushing to the sides and if possible eventually push him into the crowd while I run up and score on turn 7 or 8. Because otherwise without all my BOBs making blocks all the time its hard to move the enemy line.

This would be where the extra speed comes in, if he is blocking and not following up you should be able to surround his team, this leads to a kind of reverse cage where you are blocking in his team rather than the ball carrier. Ideally you dont want to be scoring until turn 8 on your drive anyway so if it takes you until turn 5 to even get into his half I wouldn't worry about it. Even if he does play it so that the first few turns you only get a bltiz you can still start hemming his team in and look to make a strong push up one side. The beauty of playing dwarves is that you can leave a couple of players loose and when he starts to pressurise your team you can then switch to the other flank and have a mini cage move with you.

Bear in mind he only has a maximum of 4 AG3 players so dodges are going to be risky business.

On his drive this is where personal preference will come in and whether you want to try and completely stop his offence for a 1-0 result or force an early score and go for a 2-1 result. Personally I aggressively attack the ball at every opportunity and try to force a turnover but this in itself is risky as a couple of lucky blocks can leave your back field wide open.

easilyamused wrote:This would be where the extra speed comes in, if he is blocking and not following up you should be able to surround his team, this leads to a kind of reverse cage where you are blocking in his team rather than the ball carrier. Ideally you dont want to be scoring until turn 8 on your drive anyway so if it takes you until turn 5 to even get into his half I wouldn't worry about it. Even if he does play it so that the first few turns you only get a bltiz you can still start hemming his team in and look to make a strong push up one side. The beauty of playing dwarves is that you can leave a couple of players loose and when he starts to pressurise your team you can then switch to the other flank and have a mini cage move with you.

But this is the problem! When I try to do this he just blocks with half his team, either getting assists or at least preventing me from getting assists, then one die blocks and no matter what result he gets (as long as its not the skull) the other half of his team no longer is bound by tackle zones and rereats 3-4 spaces in the direction of the ball carrier. If I try to pass, there is plenty of chance that I will fail, it will turnover, and then he just runs up and picks the ball up and forms his own cage as best as he can.

To summarize this, I pretty much have to go through his entire team with my entire team minus the ball carrier, then go through half of his team with half of mine minus the ball carrier while the other half is barely holding his other half back, and then go through another 1/4 of his team with 1/4 of mine, minus the ball carrier, and by then its turn 8 and I have to roll like 2 GFIs, an accurate long pass, a catch, 1-2 very good blocks, a dodge, and then 2 more GFIs to score. (Bit of exadduration but you get the point.

Then its second half and he's recieving. First turn he pushes me twice with a slayer, has one of the runners pick up the ball and the other one run through the gap formed by these pushes, then he is about to do a pass and I have to start rolling dodges to get to that runner, leaving my front line vulnerable. Either I dont catch the runner, so he passes and scores, or I do, so he runs through my line with is INSANE amounts of block on everything and just begins to form the cage.

Again, this is helped by him NEVER EVER rolling ANY 1's with all his 1 dice blocks and -2 dice blocks (i think -2 would mean that he rolls 2 block dice and I pick, yes?)

can you show what you offensive and defensive set ups would be?

He shouldn't be in a position to be able to force a gap and run through that quick with dwarves, woodies yes as they are insanely fast but dwarves not so much.

All I can think is that you have got to tweak your set up a little or that he might be taking unfair assists (im assuming that these are rookie teams with no guard). Also are you relatively new to the game? as a lot of this comes with experience and there can sometimes be a steep learning curve with BB.

One thing I would recommend would be to sign up to an online league as you'll be amazed how quickly you can improve. FUMBBL would be your best bet.

There are lots of tactica online, and I found them very helpful when I started playing again last year after a 16-17 year break!

http://www.bbpb.de/index.php?c=Orcs

The above are very useful, if you have not seen them already.

easilyamused wrote:can you show what you offensive and defensive set ups would be?

He shouldn't be in a position to be able to force a gap and run through that quick with dwarves, woodies yes as they are insanely fast but dwarves not so much.

Its pretty much like 7 of me VS 5-6 of his players in the center all on the halfline, his are scooched towards one side. then he has 2 on each flank and so do I. He usually makes a gap near the 4th or 5th space from the side with his rediculous rolling, then needs to roll one Dodge on a 3+ (team reroll if he fails) and he is past my line with the slayer blocking my way to him somewhat.

All i can say is buy the video game. it is great help.The computer constantly uses the cage, i could tell you how to defeat it but that takes way to long. all i can say is now their is no cage to strong that i cant stop! Thank you video game for the practice.heres some quick advice to stop that thing.try to go five wide .2 on left 2 on the rite. blitz the middle try to use somebody with block. any result that is positive will put you in the ball carriers bussinss.a.k.a your tackle zone then surround the perimeter. gauranteed to work! good enough to p.o. the pope oh by the way you might want to try a faster team.

V's Dwarf you really need to use speed, you could use gobbo's but the amount of tackle the dwarf have will just cancel it out.

Cage with four guys and always try to use a blizter or a BOB. The best advise is join a league, and play vs different teams. Dwarf teams are good at what your oppo is doing to you and take's your advantage away from your team. When you start to get some skills for you players then things like guard, frenzy, wrestle and the like will help you to cage and bash.

But orc's at starting level can be tough to play with, but vs dwarf you do have the speed, take out his runners and your faster and you have more ag 3 players as well. Try to mix it up abit, look like your going down one side then shift it down the other with a quick throw to a blitzer. Having a troll also helps you to control the middle,the ag2 players won't want to dodge away so they spend alot of the time ganging up on him. Remember that's fine, you win the game on TD's not Big Guy kill's. It might give you the head start in the running race.

As for defence, you need to control the clock, two things you could do, if you kick to him let him score early with you ganging up on his best players, then you score in this half, then when he kicks to you you take 8 turns to score and win 2-1. Who get the kick in this type of game is important because both teams are easy to stop scoring but hard to turn over. Again if he kick's to you, take 8 turns to score (well when you score do so with not much time left for him to score) then you can stop him from scoring and win 1-0.

Here's some hints to stop him, if at the end of your turn you have no players in his tackle zone's then he can only blitz one player, so when you block don't follow up, place one player behind another, so when he blocks the first there's a second in the way and you can stall his drive. Try to split his team, when most people set up they do it symmetrical, this is where a troll is good again, and stand firm, use players to isolate players of his team away from the ball carrier. If he has a four man cage and the ball carrier that leave's six players left vs your eleven. if you can split the six down to three with two of your guys then it's three vs nine. with the low mv of the dwarfs this can be a killer for them even if it's for a turn or two.

One other thing is always try to block a corner of the cage every turn, and stand on the toe's of the ball carrier, the more dice your oppo rolls the more chance he'll turn over. of course if you get a chance to hit the ball carrier then do so, but if you are winning look more to use this to stall his team. You could lose you shape by trying to pick up the ball when just getting guys in the tackle zone's of the ball might be better. But always have a safety.

Hope this helps, and remember, no one likes playing Vs dwarfs.

zeekill wrote:If i do this then he will get his 3-4 blocks, push me back, and then just not follow up so in my turn the only thing I can hope to do is a simple blitz. Then our lines are separated and all he does is stand there until the second quarter. Would it be better to fully build up my line with 7 guys on the LoS in the middle to just start bashing in heads? Then keep pushing to the sides and if possible eventually push him into the crowd while I run up and score on turn 7 or 8. Because otherwise without all my BOBs making blocks all the time its hard to move the enemy line.

Orcs are a VERY powerful team. They are versatile, much like humans, being able to play all styles of BloodBowl. You have 4 black orcs, giving you four players with ST 4. Use it to your advantage, use them to block enemies with 2 block dice, or to force them to come with help to put you down. Either way, you win, because if you put them down, they lose movement, and possibly players, due to casualties. If they block you "in groups", then they can't be elsewhere at the same time, and you can exploit this (and with AV 9, you won't get hurt often).

It's important to act in different manners when attacking and defending. When attacking, with a power team (like orcs, dwarves, and most other teams), put your team mostly along the LoS. And bash EVERYBODY down, beggining with the easier blocks. This way, you make "space" for your offensive, and you might get SP (if you wound enemies).

When defending against a power team (like those dwarves), keep in mind they'll want to do just the same thing. So, only put as much players as you need on the LoS (i.e. 3). 3 black orcs should be perfect for this. Then put assists one step behind, but close to them. This way, your opponent won't be able to surround them and get 2D. He'll only get one, and that's much better, plus, he won't get any "free" blocks. Make him work to get some, the attacker has a big advantage while blocking, so give as few blocks as you can, and, on the other hand, take as much as you can (as long as you have the advantage, that is, don't go blocking at 2 die against you unless forced to !)

There are much more things to know, but I guess knowing how to bash heads is what you need most right now


Oh, and, btw, your chart is nice, with one exception : "Defender stumbles" should be 5, and "Defender down" should be 6, not the other way around. Technically, your chart works just as fine, but "Defender down" clearly is a better result, as he won't be saved by Dodge