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Which should I use? Why? I don't care about the Model, just the playability.

Speak Now, or Forever Hold your Peace!

If you really want to use a Lictor based critter, Deathleaper is really about the only one worthwhile...and even that is debateable. The special rules for Pheremone Trail and Chamelonic (sp?) Skin are just too unreliable to be of much use, so really all you are left with is their actual combat abilities which are okay, but not spectacular. Being able to deploy wherever you want is nice, but you are unable to assault that turn which leaves you hanging in the breeze for a turn.

Maelstrom808 wrote:If you really want to use a Lictor based critter, Deathleaper is really about the only one worthwhile...and even that is debateable. The special rules for Pheremone Trail and Chamelonic (sp?) Skin are just too unreliable to be of much use, so really all you are left with is their actual combat abilities which are okay, but not spectacular. Being able to deploy wherever you want is nice, but you are unable to assault that turn which leaves you hanging in the breeze for a turn.

So... Just drop the Idea? Whats about those 2 special rules about?

The problem with those rules is they have to come in from reserves, you don't have the option of putting them on the table turn one...and the Pheremone Trail ability doesn't work till the turn after they arrive so most likely the stuff that you want to take advantage of the rule will arrive too early to do so, much like the Trygon tunnel.

I try not to be overly pushy about what I think a person should take in a list, so I'm not going to outright say "don't take em". Use what works for you. However, the elites section of the codex has several other units that are much more effective for their given roles/points. If you really want to take one, take the Deathleaper. He cost more than two Lictors, but with his additional rules and stats, it's not a bad trade...and he can be handy for helping to shut down independant and upgrade characters in the opposing army.

Maelstrom808 wrote:The problem with those rules is they have to come in from reserves, you don't have the option of putting them on the table turn one...and the Pheremone Trail ability doesn't work till the turn after they arrive so most likely the stuff that you want to take advantage of the rule will arrive too early to do so, much like the Trygon tunnel.

I try not to be overly pushy about what I think a person should take in a list, so I'm not going to outright say "don't take em". Use what works for you. However, the elites section of the codex has several other units that are much more effective for their given roles/points. If you really want to take one, take the Deathleaper. He cost more than two Lictors, but with his additional rules and stats, it's not a bad trade...and he can be handy for helping to shut down independant and upgrade characters in the opposing army.

So why not a Lictor

Lictors are pretty good. Land two of them in a piece of area terrain and they're solid, and armed with the equivalent of an Assault Cannon thanks to their Flesh Hooks. Remember that they don't Deep Strike, so you can place them impunity.

Thanks to Fleet, and Move Through Cover, they can land out whoever tries to smoke them out, and the Flesh Hooks are Assault Grenades. If they're charging a unit within 12", it's worth it to shoot with the Flesh Hooks and charge in after.

JDM wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:The problem with those rules is they have to come in from reserves, you don't have the option of putting them on the table turn one...and the Pheremone Trail ability doesn't work till the turn after they arrive so most likely the stuff that you want to take advantage of the rule will arrive too early to do so, much like the Trygon tunnel.

I try not to be overly pushy about what I think a person should take in a list, so I'm not going to outright say "don't take em". Use what works for you. However, the elites section of the codex has several other units that are much more effective for their given roles/points. If you really want to take one, take the Deathleaper. He cost more than two Lictors, but with his additional rules and stats, it's not a bad trade...and he can be handy for helping to shut down independant and upgrade characters in the opposing army.

So why not a Lictor

Same reasons...the stuff I listed, also both are T4 so fairly easy for just about any army to insta death. If you take either, Nurg listed how you want to use em, although I disagree with some of his assessment of thier value. They are only BS3 so the reliability of the flesh hooks is fairly poor...rending works best when used in volume. Even with 2 Lictors/4 shots, the chances of doing anything signifigant the turn they drop in is pretty low. If the opposition doesn't have anything else threatening them in that area on the turn they arrive, you'll most likely get smoked on thier turn unless you find the perfect spot for em.

Lictors work in a list that has alot of other 'in your face' threats. Its easy to say lictors will end up standing in the wind since they can't assault when they arrive, but will your oppoent bother with them if he's got 3+ MCs and stealers in his face? Will he have the resources if a unit of ymgarls have popped up and multi-charged accross the lines?

That's why I'd only use them in a hive commander list. Don't bother with them in a terma-spam/ shuffling shooty horde type list. In that case you are better off with the shooty options or a unit of ymgarls.

Deathleaper, he's a so-so meta counter to psychers and is pretty neccesary if running zoanthropes for your main anti-tank, but otherwise he's only real good use is a late game contestor. In all other cases lictors or ymgarls are superior in my opinion.

I'd like to point out that, with the FAQ ruling on Mawlocs, both standard lictors and DL got slightly more useful, at least in theory. (I haven't played 'nids, or even against 'nids with this combo, so keep in mind I'm talking theory here.)

Pheremone Trail allows you to "aim" a Mawloc perfectly as long as it's within 6" of a lictor or DL that was there at the beginning of the turn. Yes, it's an expensive combo... but it's one your opponent shouldn't be able to ignore, and which should force him/her to focus a lot of resources on it. Kind of like Fateweaver with Crushers, or a LR with Assault Termies, but less expensive and without quite as much staying power.

If I had enough money and time, I'd play 'nids just to try out that combo. I suspect somebody's tried it out by now, but I don't know of anybody specific...

I use them strictly for the "pheromone trail" rule in a 'Spod list - the Lictors help to guide in the 'Spods with pin-point precision...

When they live long enough, that is!