Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 07:15:53
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum and after an interpretation on the bolter ammo rules for BA Sternguard vets. The profile says that the bolter ammo info replaces the bolter profile on all bolters (including combi-weapons), but I was wondering if it also applied to storm bolters. And, if so, would they then be "assault 2" instead of "rapid fire"?
Seems to me that Sternguard with special ammo storm bolters would be a hell of a thing.
Cheers.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 07:30:42
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
FoCo
|
No, it only applies for the bolters.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 07:38:25
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Huh. So I guess the storm bolters and regular bolters use different ammo?
Thanks for the answer, but it ain't the one I wanted to hear
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 07:40:24
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Angered Reaver Arena Champion
|
irongustavius wrote:Huh. So I guess the storm bolters and regular bolters use different ammo?
Thanks for the answer, but it ain't the one I wanted to hear 
There is no fluffy explanation for why storm bolters can't use the ammo AFAIK. The rules only state that bolters can use them, so only bolters can!
|
Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 08:24:32
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Exactly.
A storm bolter is NOT a bolter, same as a heavy bolter is not a bolter.
In addition even if it COULD work you would not get assault 2 in the profile of the special rounds - as the rounds state they *replace* the existing profile with the special rules, and all state they are rapid fire.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 09:09:37
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
But rounds that replace a twin-linked guns ammo are still twin linked. Twin linked goes into the profile of the weapon just like the ammo.
But yeah, storm bolters aren't bolters so it wouldn't really matter. I really disliked how they have bolter and bolt gun interchangeable but don't really spell it out anywhere.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 12:47:23
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
Twin-linked is not a part of the weapon profile, it describes how the weapon is mounted and is mentioned only in wargear.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 12:50:18
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Courageous Questing Knight
|
I've suggested this - the basically, the shooting type was supposed to retain it's own S/AP/ Special types, but stuck to the guns profile for range and shooting type. and - YOUR ALL RONG. da stawm boltah is specifically two bolters stuck together As per page 99, space marine codex. ... "A storm bolter resembles two boltguns attached side by side."
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/12 12:52:30
DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 13:33:56
Subject: Re:Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Solon - so you're justifying altering RAW based on fluff?
A Storm Bolter is a Storm Bolter.
A Boltgun is a Boltgun.
These are two different weapons.
Sternguard Special Issue ammunition profiles replace the profile of their boltgun, not their storm bolter - and even if it did (if GW issued an errata allowing special ammunition profiles to be used for storm bolters) the storm bolter would become rapid fire, since that's the special ammunition profile, removing the storm bolter's only advantage over a standard boltgun - it'd be useless to do so.
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 13:36:28
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Emboldened Warlock
|
Captain Solon wrote:I've suggested this - the basically, the shooting type was supposed to retain it's own S/AP/ Special types, but stuck to the guns profile for range and shooting type.
and - YOUR ALL RONG. da stawm boltah is specifically two bolters stuck together
As per page 99, space marine codex.
...
"A storm bolter resembles two boltguns attached side by side."
Highlighted for emphasis.
My pringles tube, when painted green, resembles a mortar. It does not mean that I can now blow my neighbours house up.
Besides, 'bolter' and 'storm bolter' are spelled differently.
|
DC:80S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k99+D++A+++/mWD219R++T(T)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 13:38:28
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Martial Arts Fiday
|
I'm judging by the horrible spelling that he's being sarcastic?
|
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 16:00:02
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
|
Games/rules wise the 2 weapons are wholly seperate and different entities.
Fluff-wise while the Storm Bolter and Bolter are still 2 different weapons but they use exactly the same ammo.
of course Fluff =/= Rules.
Sternguard with Combi weapons still gain the Special ammo benefits though.
|
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/12 16:02:46
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Kommissar Kel wrote:Games/rules wise the 2 weapons are wholly seperate and different entities.
Fluff-wise while the Storm Bolter and Bolter are still 2 different weapons but they use exactly the same ammo.
of course Fluff =/= Rules.
Sternguard with Combi weapons still gain the Special ammo benefits though.
Correct.
As for combi-weapons, also correct, because the "bolter" portion of the combi-weapon is still a bolter in name and profile.
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 02:28:22
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Thanks for the answers guys.
Bit of a pity really, I hoped storm bolters could use the same ammo.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 02:58:35
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
Scott-S6 wrote:Twin-linked is not a part of the weapon profile, it describes how the weapon is mounted and is mentioned only in wargear.
Twin linked is actually in the section of the main rule book titled "Additional Weapon Characteristics" on page 29. The fist paragraph states "These extra characteristics are represented by additional rules that are added to a weapon's type."
A weapon with the twin-linked rule gets it because it is added to the weapons profile.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 03:15:34
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
BrockRitcey wrote:Scott-S6 wrote:Twin-linked is not a part of the weapon profile, it describes how the weapon is mounted and is mentioned only in wargear.
Twin linked is actually in the section of the main rule book titled "Additional Weapon Characteristics" on page 29. The fist paragraph states "These extra characteristics are represented by additional rules that are added to a weapon's type."
A weapon with the twin-linked rule gets it because it is added to the weapons profile.
You just contradicted yourself there.
A weapon's type and a weapon's profile are two different things.
"Twin-linked" is never expressed in the weapon's profile, any more than "master-crafted" or "relic."
That is the weapon's type, expressed in wargear options, not weapon profile.
For example, a twin-linked bolter and a bolter have the same profile, but they're two different weapon types. One is normal, the other is twin-linked.
A master-crafted bolt pistol and a bolt pistol have the same profile. And so on.
Just for reference, the profile is the part that states a weapon's range, strength, AP value, and characteristics (heavy, rapid fire, number of shots it fires, etc).
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 03:23:00
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
Actually what I said wasn't a contradiction it is what the rules say to do.
The section of the main book that covers twin linked specifically says that that the rules are added to the weapons type. Type is part of the profile. It is where assault and heavy would be. It is also where blast, pinning, get's hot, twin-linked, rending and sniper go. A twin-linked boltgun would have the following profile:
Boltgun 24" 4 5 rapid fire, twin-linked.
The twin-linked being added to the weapons profile is what lets you re-roll your missed to hit rolls.
If you pull out you SM book you will see type as one of the columns in the summary section for your weapons. The reason your summary doesn't list two different weapons for a boltgun and twin linked bolt gun is because the main book covers what to do when you have a rule that grants a weapon the twin-linked characteristic.
You add it to the profile in the type section.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 14:56:11
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
|
Profiles for bolter and storm bolter:
BOLTER:
Rapid-fire weapon. fires one round up to 24" if stationery, one round up to 12" if unit has moved. Fires 2 rounds if unit is stationery up to 12".
unit cannot assault after firing.
STORM BOLTER.
Assault weapon. Fires 2 rounds up to 24" regardless of if unit has moved or not. Unit can assault after firing.
Reason Sternguard have BOLTERS instead of Strom bolters is they're meant to stand still and pour fire into advancing hoardes when other squads would retreat.
Vengeance rounds on rapid fire make storm bolters look pants.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/13 15:07:04
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Sinewy Scourge
Long Island, New York, USA
|
Corennus wrote:
BOLTER:
Rapid-fire weapon. fires one round up to 24" if stationery, one round up to 12" if unit has moved. Fires 2 rounds if unit is stationery up to 12".
unit cannot assault after firing.
Bolters can fire 1 shot at maximum range if stationary, can fire 2 shots up to 12" whether stationary or moving.
|
I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire. The man who lies low and awaits developments usually comes off second best. - Erwin Rommel
"For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise." - Benjamin Franklin
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 01:41:58
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
Wait, hellfire rounds are an exception are they not? Cant captains take them in storm bolters? If not I may have cheated in a game ages ago and wounded a daemonprince once when i wasnt supposed to
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 02:26:08
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
Hellfire rounds cannot be used in a storm bolter. They only replace the profile of a bolter which is a boltgun.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 02:36:52
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Screeching Screamer of Tzeentch
Bangkok, Thailand
|
Jaon wrote:Wait, hellfire rounds are an exception are they not? Cant captains take them in storm bolters? If not I may have cheated in a game ages ago and wounded a daemonprince once when i wasnt supposed to 
In the armoury section of the SM codex it states that Hellfire rounds may only be used with boltguns. I played it with a Storm bolter before, so I now have learned something
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 02:45:15
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
The armoury section says that the hellfire rounds work on bolters. You have to read the boltgun section to find out that bolters are actually boltguns and not just any bolt weapons.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 03:01:51
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Jaon wrote:Wait, hellfire rounds are an exception are they not? Cant captains take them in storm bolters? If not I may have cheated in a game ages ago and wounded a daemonprince once when i wasnt supposed to 
And by making stupid mistakes like that, we learn.
Welcome to the club.
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 18:00:31
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Yellin' Yoof
|
Seems like there really needs to be eratta/faq from GW on this.
In the mean time, my group has decided that if the Sternguard are upgraded with a storm bolter the special ammunition can be used but it replaces the profile of the storm bolter with a rapid fire/special ammo rule. Of course this is an "in house rule only"
Also the "Boltgun" reference.... Wouldn't a bolt pistol, bolter, stormbolter, and Heavy Bolter all qualify as a bolt"gun"? One of my players made a very compelling argument...hence the agreed to "in house" rules above.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/16 18:07:48
--- "Oi! I'm Boss Big'un, an' I ap'roov'd dis 'ere message!" ---
Gorskar.da.Lost : "Need more badass minis of unreasonable cavalry" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 18:08:33
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
BossBig'un wrote:Seems like there really needs to be eratta/faq from GW on this.
No they don't. It's very clear.
BossBig'un wrote:In the mean time, my group has decided that if the Sternguard are upgraded with a storm bolter the special ammunition can be used but it replaces the profile of the storm bolter with a rapid fire?special ammo rule.
Then what's the point of the storm bolter? The only difference between a storm bolter and a boltgun is assault 2 versus rapid fire.
If you change a storm bolter's profile from assault 2 to rapid fire, congratulations... it's now identical to a boltgun, and you've wasted a ton of points upgrading all your boltguns to boltguns.
BossBig'un wrote:Also the "Boltgun" reference....
Wouldn't a bolt pistol, bolter, stormbolter, and Heavy Bolter all qualify as a bolt"gun"? One of my players made a very compelling argument...hence the agreed to "in house" rules above.
No. A boltgun is a boltgun, a bolt pistol is a bolt pistol, a heavy bolter is a heavy bolter, and a storm bolter is a storm bolter. I really don't understand where the confusion is.
By your logic, a chainsword and a power sword are both swords, so they have the same profile. Or, how about a lasgun, a las pistol, a multilaser, and a lascannon are all las weapons, so they all have the same profile. Or a shuriken catapult and a shuriken cannon are both shuriken weapons, so they have the same profile. Or a meltagun, a melta pistol, a multimelta, and a melta cannon are all melta weapons, so... you see where I'm going with this? Just because they all happen to have the word "bolt" in their name doesn't make them all the same weapon, or allows them to share rules.
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 19:59:00
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
|
Boss big'un The hellfire round replaces the Profile of the boltgun; what is commonly refered to as a Bolter, is in fact proper-named(in this same codex at least) a Boltgun. The boltgun has a very specific Profile and therefore hellfire rounds only work in it.
|
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 21:42:16
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Yellin' Yoof
|
SaintHazard: Your argument about a powersword and a chainsword doesn't make sense. At no point and time do I say that a bolter and a stormbolter have the same stats. So I don't know where that came from... I can only surmise it is your way of trolling.
|
--- "Oi! I'm Boss Big'un, an' I ap'roov'd dis 'ere message!" ---
Gorskar.da.Lost : "Need more badass minis of unreasonable cavalry" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 21:47:00
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
BossBig'un wrote:Wouldn't a bolt pistol, bolter, stormbolter, and Heavy Bolter all qualify as a bolt"gun"?
That's where.
As I said, no, they don't all qualify as a boltgun.
Do a Google Image search for "boltgun" and "heavy bolter" and try and tell me they look anything alike, I dare you.
|
DQ:80+S+++G++M+B+I+Pw40k10#+D++A++/areWD-R+++T(D)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/16 21:50:45
Subject: Sternguard Veterans - Bolter rules
|
 |
Yellin' Yoof
|
Do you Double Dog Dare me?!?!
So in my quote where does it say they will all have the same stats? Or are you just adding stuff to make yourself valid?
& Check out the question mark at the end of the sentence. It is a question not a statement. and it is a statement about NOMICLATURE!
A Henrgy .22 Rifle and a Smith and Wesson .22 Pistol look nothing alike.... but amazingly still both use the same ammunition
A Glock and an H&K are still both Pistols.... but amazingly still both use the same ammunition.
A M-16 and a M-249 look nothing alike... but amazingly still both use the same ammunition.
And really? Google? That is the be all end all of your argument?
U Be Trollin!
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/08/16 21:57:30
--- "Oi! I'm Boss Big'un, an' I ap'roov'd dis 'ere message!" ---
Gorskar.da.Lost : "Need more badass minis of unreasonable cavalry" |
|
 |
 |
|