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Hey, if I include a Night Goblin Fanatic in my Night Goblin unit, do they benefit from his LD10?

No. Night gobo's are basically their own seperate units once they are released. Until they are released they are basically concealed IE not in play. The unit leadership is its own or modifiied by a characters. The fanatic is not even taken into consideration.

Alright, thanks.

Also, under the new rules, a fanatic that is killed within 6 inches of a friendly unit now forces a panic check! Enjoy that!

My two coppers...

Orkimedes wrote:Also, under the new rules, a fanatic that is killed within 6 inches of a friendly unit now forces a panic check! Enjoy that!

No they don't, per the Errata.

May I ask, how do you make sure that your Night Goblins will stand and fight? I mean a LD5 is pathetic, and so far I haven't found anything useful to make them stay in close combat except standars...

Put a goblin boss in there, now you have ld7.

They are cheap enough that this, stubborn and a BSB will keep you around.

Goblin Warboss' give Leadership 8, and they're practically a dime / dozen too (they're probably hitting on 3's as well). Or you can keep them within 12 / 18" of an Orc Warboss and / or a Battle Standard Bearer. To my understanding / math (I'm hoping I ain't wrong here), Ld. 9 + BSB + Steadfast = 96% stand-your-ground rate. Gorbad gives you a much higher stand rate (Practically 99.3%), but he's risky in that you need to avoid injury as well as the fact that you're not getting an Anti-Hero Lord in anything short of a 2.5K point game now.

Goblin Warbosses are preferential to Night Goblin Warbosses... for the first character in a unit. Afterwards, Night Goblin Warbosses become preferential as their only "loss" is already covered by another hero (heck, if you keep the Night Goblins within 12" of the general then they don't even need the Common) while being cheaper and better stat-lined otherwise to boot.

Ah right, assumed hero levels were ld7, and so cheap you can have one per unit without worrying too much

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ah right, assumed hero levels were ld7, and so cheap you can have one per unit without worrying too much

Hero level regular Goblins are Ld 7, but when you can pay a little more for either:
A) A Lord (at 20pts more) with +1 WS, W, A, and +2 Initiative, plus 100pts of magic items, at the same cost.
B) A Lord (30pts more) with all the above (but only +1 Initiative) and Ld 8 now.

When you can have either of those, it's really not much a loss unless you really need the points for a Lord Shaman / second Orc Warboss. Goblins can take Big Bosses, but I see those more as point fillers in that - while a great improvement over standard gobbos (30pts for WS4, 3 S4 T4 attacks at I4, 50pts of magic items!) - is still so-so in many places. Big Boss Goblins still work on the Quantity mechanic, it's the Warboss' where Quality really starts to show up.

So I should put a Night Goblin warboss in every single unit or have one close to everyone? Keep in mind that i'm a newbie, be gentle.

Edit; Figured out that i'm supposed to buy a Battle Standard or something to the warboss, brb rulebook!

Fancy asking such a stoopid question Muppas

erm... actually I was gonna ask that too

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Fancy asking such a stoopid question Muppas

:(



Oh well, I couldn't find any rules in the rulebook about heroes and standard bearers, could someone explain how it works then? Should a warboss join every unit (how is it even possible when you have a max of total heroes and lords etcetc?) or just place one close to your main army?

Sorry Muppas
I was only joking about it being a silly question

Seriously I was going to ask that question myself, as I also thought there was a limit to the number of Heroes/Lords that may be taken

However as sugessted, the rules in 8th edition are that you now base your HQ slots on percentages. If Lord/Hero is only 20 points (for example) Then in a 1000 point army you can have 25% as heroes ie you can take 400 points worth

I think that is correct but not entirely sure.

Again I apologise if my comments caused you upset as it wasn't my intention, and the jest was aimed more at myself for not knowing as I have had the gobbos for a couple or three years now.
Not played, much but even so ...

Haha no, i'm not upset! That's just the way I do, like, in a friendly-joking matter when someone calls me stupid and I do a sad smiley!

But yeah, I hope some veteran could come in here and explain to me/us. But if i'm not wrong, you're only able to take a maximum of 3 heroes or something in a -2000 point army, or am I wrong? Does this count for "lesser" leaders like warbosses?

Edit: Seriously, I can't find any information about leaders using standards that counts for every unit being close to him! Which page can you find this information? I couldn't find it at the standard/musician section.

If you can, I'd suggest taking some Orcs in the list and taking an Orc Warboss & BSB (Orc for the leadership, BSB because Orcs can get some actual durability what with between T5, and possibly having a 2+ / 5+ or 3+ / 4+ save).

If you can't fit them though, a Goblin Warboss (at least one common Goblin, many possible outfits) and a Night Goblin BSB (likely with the Talisman of Protection) will probably do as a basis. If you have a Shaman (which, if you bought Battle for Skull Pass, you should), I'd advise a Level 2 with the Staff of Sneaky Stealin' (a Level 4 might be better, but it costs over twice the points and takes up more Lord points).

Battle Standard Bearers can only be Hero-Levels (barring special exceptions), so it must be on a Big Boss. I suggest a Night Goblin simply because it's slightly cheaper and at I4 it strikes slightly faster to boot. A Common Goblin works just as well, is slightly better for when / if the General dies (having Ld7 instead of Ld6), but doesn't really gain much else so it's all preference.

If going all Goblins I'd say a single streamlined Lord for each unit (after the Common Goblin General, the rest should be regular Night Goblins barring those who you think will be along flanks / outside the General's 12" bubble), and one to two Big Bosses (Common or Night Goblin, your choice). For five units, it's sorta expensive (about 500-600pts), but considering they're Goblins they're also about all you can rely on to cause active combat resolution after the Fanatics have thinned out enemy units.

Thanks, that's very helpful! However, about the Battle Standard, should I stay close with the hero with the rest of my Night Goblin units or should I team him up with an unit? And if I team the hero with an unit, do all units that are close still recieve the extra LD or only the unit that the hero is teamed up with?

The only one that provides a leadership "bubble" is the general (with his inspiring presence rule). The BSB will provide the re-rolls to anyone within 12", and his leadership to the unit he is with. Frequently, though, that BSB's unit will be using your general's Inspiring Presence, as the BSB and general are usually used in concert...

Hope I didn't complicate that with getting too wordy...

RZ

Oh, now I understand.

...

Kinda.

I must ask, are you only able to have one general that counts with the Inspiring Presence or are you able to field a lot of general units that counts with Inspiring Presence? Seriously tho I think I need to read the books again haha.

Muppas wrote:Oh, now I understand.

...

Kinda.

I must ask, are you only able to have one general that counts with the Inspiring Presence or are you able to field a lot of general units that counts with Inspiring Presence? Seriously tho I think I need to read the books again haha.

Only one general my have Inspiring Presence, but at the same time a unit always uses the highest leadership value of the models available unless specified otherwise.

Thus, for instance, say you had a Ld6 unit of Goblins outside your Ld 9 General's (An Orc Warboss of some kind) 12" bubble, but it was attached with a Ld5 Night Goblin Shaman and a Leadership 7 Goblin Big Boss. They would be outside the General's 12" bubble, so they could not use his leadership (no Ld9!). That leaves them with three Leadership values: The 5 for the Shaman, the 6 for the Unit, and the 7 for the character. Normally, the unit would be limited to Ld6 if on its own, and said Night Goblin Shaman would be only Ld5 (ouch!). However, there's a Goblin Big Boss inside that unit. Since he is part of it, he can boss them around / "inspire" them enough to use his own Leadership (Ld 7).

Essentially, you can always use the highest leadership available within a unit barring tests that specifically state "A model's own, unmodified leadership" (An example being the Skull Wand of Kaloth). This works both ways, as - to go back to the example - say the Big Boss is killed in some manner (at T4, a 5+ save, and two wounds, not too difficult). If, at a later point, said unit was required to take a Panic Check, it would be Leadership 6 (the Goblins' leadership) and not Leadership 5 (the Night Goblins'), even though he's a Hero and they're rank and file. In this case, you assume that the character takes strength from his companions (and their continued value as meatshields) and thus is using their higher leadership value. Exceptions to this are where you're specifically stated to not benefit from someone's leadership (such as Skaven Assassins, who can never be a General even when they have the highest leadership). Fanatics fall under this, as they're not technically "in" the unit (not represented) until they're released, by which point they form their own unique, individual "units". Being Immune to Psychology as well as Ld10, their Leadership very rarely comes into the equation.

Alright, I think I get it now. However, there's one more thing I need to ask. If I have a Goblin Big Boss and an Orc Big Boss, can I still make the Goblin to the general with the Inspiring Presence instead of the Orc if I want to, or will it always be the strongest character that has it?

Muppas wrote:Alright, I think I get it now. However, there's one more thing I need to ask. If I have a Goblin Big Boss and an Orc Big Boss, can I still make the Goblin to the general with the Inspiring Presence instead of the Orc if I want to, or will it always be the strongest character that has it?

To my understanding, you must always make the model with the highest leadership characteristic your army general. In the case of a tie, however (Ex: You have a Common Goblin Warboss, and two Orc Big Bosses), the player gets to choose which model is the general (amongst those in the tie, so going back to the example you could make either of the two Orc Big Bosses your general, or the Common Goblin Warboss). One of said "Highest Leadership" exceptions is Battle Standard Bearers: If you had a Night Goblin Warboss and those two Orc Big Bosses, one of the Orc Big Bosses a Battle Standard Bearer, then you couldn't take the BSB as your general and would thus be forced into using the remaining Orc Big Boss as your General.

Muppas
I haven't watched them all yet but there are a usefel set of Beast of War videos on the 8th ed rules including one on BSB's and one on musicians.

Fell asleep watching it last night.
Misunderstandings and embarrassment can be very tiring

Minsc wrote:To my understanding, you must always make the model with the highest leadership characteristic your army general. In the case of a tie, however (Ex: You have a Common Goblin Warboss, and two Orc Big Bosses), the player gets to choose which model is the general (amongst those in the tie, so going back to the example you could make either of the two Orc Big Bosses your general, or the Common Goblin Warboss). One of said "Highest Leadership" exceptions is Battle Standard Bearers: If you had a Night Goblin Warboss and those two Orc Big Bosses, one of the Orc Big Bosses a Battle Standard Bearer, then you couldn't take the BSB as your general and would thus be forced into using the remaining Orc Big Boss as your General.

Now I understand, thanks!

Muppas
I haven't watched them all yet but there are a usefel set of Beast of War videos on the 8th ed rules including one on BSB's and one on musicians.

Fell asleep watching it last night.
Misunderstandings and embarrassment can be very tiring

Awesome find, i'll make sure to watch them!