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I need a little help deciding how I'm going to round out this army. Here is what I have so far.

Archon 170
Shadow field, Jet-bike, Punisher, T.helm, c.drugs

3x Haemonculus 135
Destructors and scissorhands,

5x Raider Squad 115
1x Blaster, 1x spl.cannon
raiders, horrorfex

5x Raider Squad 115
1x Blaster, 1x spl.cannon
raiders, horrorfex

5x Raider Squad 115
1x Blaster, 1x spl.cannon
raiders, horrorfex

5x Raider Squad 115
1x Blaster, 1x spl.cannon
raiders, horrorfex

10x Warrior Squad 100
2x Dark Lance

10x Warrior Squads 100
2x Dark Lance

5x Wych Squad 171
2x Blasters, Wych Weapons
1x Succubus
Agonizer, Wych Weapon
Raider

5x Wych Squad 171
2x Blasters, Wych Weapons
1x Succubus
Agonizer, Wych Weapon
Raider

3x Reaver Jetbikes 95
2x Blasters

3x Ravagers 345
2x Dissy each

Obsolete:
I come up with 1647 pts, so 103 left to play with. I thought about a couple of Haemy's w/ destructors and scissorhands to tag along with the gunboats or wyches either one. I could fit another RJB squad in there with no sybarite. I only have 6 raiders, which limits me on the gunboats.

Obsolete:
I know I'm going to catch some flak for the warp beasts, but I wanted to try something with them. I went digging and couldn't find anything preventing me from mounting them in transports after the game has started. I intend to take the sniper boat squad and start them disembarked. Round 1 embark the Warp beast pack, try and keep the transport hidden. Round 2 they may be dead/running away, but if not I have a fleet squad of 20 S4 Attacks and 4 Agoniser attacks on a charge that could be just about anywhere on the board still in round 2. Just an idea. Maybe it won't fail miserably.

Thanks in advance.

1) I would recommend more bodies for the gunboat squads. I have had good luck with running 8 total. The extra shots help and having more bodies keeps the squad alive.
2) Upgrade the Dracon to a Archon. You have the extra points and the extra wound is nice - it allows you to be more aggresive with you combat drugs.
3) Hammy's wiht scissorhands and destructor are great to go with the witches - they can thin numbers before the witches assault.

ThePhish wrote:I come up with 1647 pts, so 103 left to play with. I thought about a couple of Haemy's w/ destructors and scissorhands to tag along with the gunboats or wyches either one. I could fit another RJB squad in there with no sybarite. I only have 6 raiders, which limits me on the gunboats.

I think Haemys are the smart buy at this stage, they will really add some potnetial nasty edge to either the Wych boats or Gunboats depending where you need/want them. Another option is to "upgrade" one of the Wyche squads to a Dracite w. Wych Retinue - that can add a lot of punch to a Wych squad and transform it from tarpit to onslaught unit.

I'm a little leery of going RJB Lord if you really want to be competitive - I think you'd be more effective sticking to a Lord in a Raider - though will admit that with your lack of Raiders this is actually probably a good option since usually a Lord w. Retinue is really just an excuse to get another Raider on the table. I will note that a footslogging lord is faster then a RJB one.

I know I'm going to catch some flak for the warp beasts, but I wanted to try something with them. I went digging and couldn't find anything preventing me from mounting them in transports after the game has started.

*cough*brb pg.54*cough*

Specifically look at when they're listing off examples of the unit type...

It would be awesome to have the beasts come out of a raider! It's a shame.

I've tried using them and maybe its just me, but I can't get them to be worth it. I field so many raiders that the beast never get shot, that's not the problem. Its that its almost impossible to assault someone that is not in cover - and the beasts don't have grenades. With T3, very few are left to swing.

Yeah, people hug terrain pretty aggressively nowadays. Also, even with a lot of attacks it's not like they're earth shaking attacks. If you hit into an Ork mob or IG blob you're just asking for trouble. They really need a certain type of opponent to really shine - and it's the same type of opponent that Lords with Punishers are good for sawing up.

I use Lords or Dissies and haven't needed to look back yet.

I really think where they fell off was when they added in consolidation after a charge - that really amped up the ability of squads to fight off Warp Beasts and prevented you from fighting only part of a large squad in order to whittle it down long before they ever got to swing back.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the BRB also give beasts a 12" move? If so that would mean 12" move+d6" fleet+12" Assault

Theres a good chance I'm wrong though, will check when I get home.

On the List:

Agree with upgrading the Drachon to an Archon
Haemys with the Wyches would be good, but also might make the squads a bit too Killy, dont want them getting shot up.
Putting them with the Splinter Cannon/Blaster Gunboats would provde some nice extra close range firepoer to keep them out of assault though.

One question I have, you've got a Raider squad with a blaster and a dark lance, not sure how that squad is going to use both of those

You're remembering wrong. The rules say they move like infantry (6") but they do grant them fleet and a 12" assault move. Any Beast/Calvary units that have a 12" base move do so due to special rules within their own unit entry and not by dint of being Beast/Calvary unit types.

Fair enough, I figured that would probably be the case as soon as I realised my memory left them with a 25-30" threat range on foot...

Oh well... warp beasts will have to go then. I've never really had any success with them at all. I was just trying to find something to help make them useful. I just think it's bizarre that DE have a codex where only half the units listed are effective. (TY Thor's Tactica) I keep trying to justify the existence of hellions, mandrakes, warp beasts, Talos(outside wwp army), and scourges.... It doesn't make sense that they should all suck so bad or be so expensive pt-wise to be pointless in using.

*cough*brb pg.54*cough*

Specifically look at when they're listing off examples of the unit type...

Honestly, and I'm probably just dense, I didn't see anything on pg.54 indicating that they could not, but there was nothing saying they could there either. I found something on pg 66 under transport capacity saying that only infantry can embark on transports.

I've edited the army above with some of the suggestions. I dropped the warp beasts. Added 3 haemy's with destructors and scissor hands (haven't made up my mind whether I'll put them with wyches or gunboats). Changed the 1 sniper boat to a gunboat since the warp beast idea ended up sucking, and finally, upgraded the lord to an Archon and added Horrorfexes to the 4 gunboats. Sitting at 1747 pts.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Don't forget to add plasma grenades to your lord. Yes you can tap the drug to go first but there are better options.

Good catch. I'll add that. Thanks. Although, I try to avoid having to assault through cover with a jetbike lord due to the dangerous terrain test w/ the bike. I hate killing models that expensive b/c he couldn't fly over a bush.

As an IC your lord has the USR "skilled rider" - gets to re-roll failed dangerours terrain tests.

.... I did not know this..... I must read. Thank you again.

Look in the BRB under independant characters - its goes over the special rules for them.

Good luck with the bike lord - I personally am not a fan. It may be my playing style or just the type or armies I play against but the bike lord isn't as effective as a solo lord in a raider for me.

The big difference is the assault range. A bike lord only has an assault range of 19-24 inches. A solo lord in a Raider has and assault range of 27-32 inches.
That extra range helps in the way I use him. I don't expect him to live - he's my alpha strike on high priority targets - example: Long Fangs. He'll win or tie up a squad and force my opponent to send something else at him. It usually is enought to kill the lord but most often he gets his pts back before he dies. And you can't put a pt value on a long fang squad or any other multi-raider killing squads not being able to shoot.

That rule.... would have come in handy a few times if I had remembered it. Oh well.

I've only tried the jb lord a few times. I haven't really formed an opinion yet on which one I like better. I like the extra T and S. I usually send wyches after MC, or a dracite/retinue if I have one. I'm still fairly new so I'm trying to play as many different ways as possible still to find my niche, and what works best for me.

talos and mandrakes are not useless. i don't know how you've come to this understanding.

Mandrakes: learning curve, play a few games with them and you'll see how nice they can be.

Talos are really only effective in groups of 2 or 3, because the opponent has to split fire. Especially with a pack of grots ringing them, they can be pretty hard to take down.

I would recommend adding more warriors. squads of 5 always fail me, and i generally don't go lower than 7 or 8. other than that, decent list, although i feel like wches should be at least 6 strong as well

I am now using 3 talos now instead of 3 ravagers - very useful and I advocate them only if you are willing to learn how to use them, a completely different role than a ravager and you do have to work their presence into your game plan (you can't just drop 3 talos into any list and make them work). I have a battle report up with 3 of them in it, they did well and their purpose was completely fulfilled.

Mandrakes - much trickier but I like how Kabal of Night's Wish uses them (you gotta read his battle reports to get an idea). Again, same as the Talos, you have to learn how to use them and work them into your game plan (and yes, you can't drop them into any old list and expect wondrous achievements out of them). Think scapel, not hammer.