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I have just had a 2000pt battle vs a DEATHWING Army. The LANDRAIDER was annoying and it just would not die, PF and Melta bombs! I hit it 6 x with ML KRAK and hit it with Twin Linked Las x3, MM x 3 and Meltagun hits x3. Surely to god, statistically it would be hammered. I managed one glancing hit with TELION using a Sniper Rifle man and managed a shaken result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please if anyone can offer any advice on a good Landraider Killing setup as I am sick of them!

(MELTA BOMBS 8 + 2D6 and it still would not die!!!!!!!)

There is no easy way, as we know its a game of chance, however i know your frustration those things often just dont die.It looks like you used everything you possible could!!! I did once play a game where My first shot was with a lascannon at a Night Lords Landraider, 6 to hit, 6 on the armour penetration roll and 6 on the result.. Boom! Plain Good Luck. However recent games I have used a grey hunter squad with 2 melta guns in a rhino, Get close , disembark, within 6 inches, fire, strength 8 plus 2d6 on armour penetration, good chance to penetrate. This has worked well for me. My chaos army also has a squad in a Rhino with 2 melta guns, good for taking out any armour. You mentioned you had used melta guns, was this within 6 inches to give you the 2d6 on the armour penetration? Usually the melta bombs do the same job!! so I think you was really really unlucky, some would say hexed!

There are many weapons that can take out a londraider, but the most powerfull are (with C:sm) is the Demolisher Cannon, melta weapons, las cannons and assault cannons.

You could try running a few vindicators, that should work.

mwnciboo Wrote
I managed one glancing hit with TELION using a Sniper Rifle man and managed a shaken result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A sniper rifels max penetration is 12 (str. 3 +6+3 rending=12) so that means you did no damage.

it really depends on the army...i know eldar have no problem with it. and the best bet for space marines is to get into the half range for any melta weapon and hope for at least a 6 on 2 dice which shouldnt really be that hard unless the dice gods say otherwise. also the ap 1 on melta really helps when it blows up. and as for utilizing pfs its best if used in mass that way you have a better chance of doing something...termies come to mind with that option. also its an option that really sux imo, if your also using a raider there is also the ram option. there are really just alot of options in the standard marine codex to take down a raider, id take a look at it and see what you can do.

lliadon wrote:it really depends on the army...i know eldar have no problem with it. and the best bet for space marines is to get into the half range for any melta weapon and hope for at least a 6 on 2 dice which shouldnt really be that hard unless the dice gods say otherwise. also the ap 1 on melta really helps when it blows up. and as for utilizing pfs its best if used in mass that way you have a better chance of doing something...termies come to mind with that option. also its an option that really sux imo, if your also using a raider there is also the ram option. there are really just alot of options in the standard marine codex to take down a raider, id take a look at it and see what you can do.

Yup. The problem with termies is that you're still swinging S8 vs AR14 so you'll still only glance even if your chances to damage are increased from number of attacks. Thunderhammers might fare better since they dish out a stunned (?) result on any successful damage roll. Melta in half range (remember that's 12" for a MM) or an Ironclad with DDCW and either a chainfist for penetration or a seismic hammer for increased chance to damage is the way to go.

As far as the firepower you dished out, it sounds like the dice gods were laughing at you that particular game. In one game I played, my opponent fired an Oblit's Lascannon at my monolith as the first shot in the game, rolled a 6 to pen, 6 on the damage chart. Lith go boom.

Chainfists or PFs.....Meltas....Yeah. Any S10 weapon is pretty good too.

To me it sounds like you just got really unlucky on the melta-weapons not taking it out, strength 8 + 2d6 and +1 on the result table roll for being AP 1 should easily have taken it out of the game if not destroyed it, assuming you were within half range. Personally, if you've got so much melta-weaponry, I would have saved my lascannons and missile launchers for other stuff, they'll be far less likely to take the land raider out (5s and 6s just to beat armour) and best served taking on other vehicles or infantry. As a Space Wolves player I'd send meltabomb/gun armed bikes after it, or perhaps some landspeeders with multimeltas on them, though if you're playing a more long range SM army, as I would assume any list with that many heavy weapons is, then perhaps a vindicator can do what you want, it's 10 strength cannon gives you a 50/50 chance of beating the armour to some degree, range shouldn't be an issue as (I expect) the landraider would be speeding towards you anyway and the size of the raider and the blast template means you're unlikely for a shot to miss even with the scatter.

Time for you my friend tosacrifice a die or two!

I never managed to get up close within 6 inches with my melta's so that was a silly move, especially using combi-melta's as it was a one shot deal d'oh. I couldn't get my MM Dread within 12" either. I was so unlucky with my Scout Sergeant with a MELTA bomb and PF not to nail it, especially as he TANK SHOCKED him next turn. Death or Glory failed. I did however manage to kill his vindicator and predator. I was very disappointed with my Support Dread with ML + TLAS it contributed zero, but my scout sergeant nailed a DREAD with a PF and then charged the LANDRAIDER (Good Skills!).

Yeah, I was playing a Gunline Army, 2 x 10man Tacs (ML+FL), + Sternguard (Combi meltas + Plasmas) + Cmd Squad (-ive champion) + Termies (vanilla +AC) + 3 x 5man scout squads (2xML+HB) , 2 x dreads + whirlwind, LS (MM) LSS.

Anser is simple: lots of Railguns.

Backfire wrote:Anser is simple: lots of Railguns.

Or lascannons.
Or you throw away your old dice and buy a new one for your meltas.

As a DE player i can honestly say that Land Raiders and the likes dont give me any trouble at all thanks to 21 Dark Lance shots on my first turn

Can't get close enough to melta? Take a Landraider they're great protection ^_^ but most people find the Multi-Melta Speeder are an effective way to get close. Flat out for a nice cover save, then next turn 12" and multi-melta 12".

mwnciboo wrote:I never managed to get up close within 6 inches with my melta's so that was a silly move, especially using combi-melta's as it was a one shot deal d'oh. I couldn't get my MM Dread within 12" either. I was so unlucky with my Scout Sergeant with a MELTA bomb and PF not to nail it, especially as he TANK SHOCKED him next turn. Death or Glory failed. I did however manage to kill his vindicator and predator. I was very disappointed with my Support Dread with ML + TLAS it contributed zero, but my scout sergeant nailed a DREAD with a PF and then charged the LANDRAIDER (Good Skills!).

Yeah, I was playing a Gunline Army, 2 x 10man Tacs (ML+FL), + Sternguard (Combi meltas + Plasmas) + Cmd Squad (-ive champion) + Termies (vanilla +AC) + 3 x 5man scout squads (2xML+HB) , 2 x dreads + whirlwind, LS (MM) LSS.

Looks like too many points sinks, and what shooting you have is designed to take out hordes and light tanks. Why the command squad? How big was the sternguard and termie squads? Why a single whirlwind? Why 3 scout squads? Why give a scout sargent in a heavy weapons unit a powerfist? You got extremely lucky to destroy a dread with that. (as in 5 percent per attack with a powerfist lucky)

If you face off against a single rock army, like a single raider army. Don't shoot at it unless you happen to get a good melta shot. Just don't bother. Kill the rest of his army, and try to stay mobile to limit the damage the LR cargo can do. Once the rest of the army is dealt with, you have much better options to deal with it.

Essentially what happened is your opponent drew your entire armies attacks on one nearly impossible to destroy vehicle, while you could have been doing other things that were more productive. On top of that you brought a list designed to deal with light infantry and vehicles, when you faced a heavy vehicle and a very heavy infantry army. Find a better balance, and drop points sinks that don't make sense (like command squads and the whirlwind, command squads aren't good except on bikes or in LR, and whirlwinds are best in pairs but still aren't good) in favor of units that can deal with more types of threats. Like a HF/MM land speeder or two.

3 fex's riped my to pieces last night.

With a MM Dread it might be an idea to load in into a drop pod to ensure it gets at least 1 decent shot off.

mwn
Every army you build needs to have a way to stop a land raider by your turn 2 at the latest, turn 1 if at all possible.. Raider rushing is a gimmick but the only way to stop it is to build your lists with it in mind. Basically what you want for this job is either fast units with multi meltas, a unit in a drop pod with several melta guns, or a battery of lascannons on your side of the table. Just rough estimates here 2-3 melta attacks are reasonably certain to kill your target if they're twin linked, 3-4 will be necessary if they aren't. If you go with lascannons you'll need 6+ if you're twin linked, 8+ if you aren't.
AF

My MM LS was my great white hope, but it was shredded in 1st turn after turbo boosting across the board....I think you are right, i went for anti infantry when I should have gone for Anti-Armour and heavy infantry. What is wrong with a CMD Squad? It did well, versus a Bike unit and annihilated a Deathwing Termie Squad (2 x Plasma guns, 1xMeltagun + FNP Apoth) and was still intact at the end of the game. My Sternguard Squad was quite good for 5 man squad ( Combi plasma, Meltas and Flamers!). I killed everything else, except BELIAL (sic) and his CC Terminator Squad hiding in the bloody LAND RAIDER. Fair point on the Whirlwind, i might drop it for a Razorback (Twin Las) and another Landspeeder!

you need redundancy... if you're going to use land speeders and attack bikes for this job you'll need at least 4. Beleive me people who use raiders know how vulnerable they are to those kind of units and will prioritize them in their shooting phase.

I was thinking of Bikers with Meltaguns to get up close and personal quickly and then give them a dose of Melta!

The bikers will work if he goes first but if you do they'll be too short range. attack bikes with multi meltas will have range either way, so I'd go with that, or a land speeder. He only needs to move a land raider twice to beat face with it. Sometimes even once is plenty.

Best way to kill one is to ignore it. Big tanks are bullet-magnets, as everyone knows. With the new rules, blowing one up, especially one crammed with terminators, you really haven't accomplished anything.

Shoot the terminators, they're hard enough to kill as it is, but they are easier than a Land Raider. Since I assume he was using Belial to make terminators into troops, once you take out the terminators, there are no more scoring units on the field, if you are playing that format, that is... In Metallica format, not so much.

One reason people put out big things is for people to waste big shots on them. I've taken out five Land Raiders with lascannons; I did it mainly because I was new to the game and was going after the big stuff first. While I was pumping big shots into them, his troops were murdering mine, as my troops has lost their fire support due to wasted shots.

If I have no other shots on stuff, I'll shoot a Land Raider, otherwise, I just try to avoid them or play to their weakness: no turret.

Just to be clear an empty land raider isn't much of a threaet (except for redeemers.) It's land raiders packed with terminators that need to be stopped.

Your best bet does seem to be meltas in general, just because they will have the best chance overall. MM are generally easier to get within melta range and I have found that meltas can be difficult to get within range if you opponent sees them coming.

Having two dedicated units to deal with a LR/TAS combo is a must. You need redundancy to nuetralize those termies, it is usually to risky to ignore them. You can ignore monoliths much of the time but LR's aren't monoliths. I would probably suggest having 3 units to deal with the heavy transport but that depends on the rest of your list. You can ignore the LR with the part of your list that isn't viable against it, while your meltas and what have you target the LR relentlessly.

If you haven't killed the LR by turn 3 you will more often than not, pay the price for it. There are not many ways to deal with assault termies (TAS) and stopping them early is the best way to avoid being forced to try. I'll add that assaulting AV14 is a pretty fantastic way to always hit on a 6+. It is difficult to find an assault unit that can work around tank movement.

Wait until you assault a LR; fail at stopping or popping it; get tank shocked; respond with DoG and cause the tank to explode (autohit is pretty sweet); then get assaulted by a bunch of angry assault terminators right after all of that. Not very likely but it will definitely screw up your plans if it happens.

This whole game is based n lucky dice rolls... i was fighting chaos and with 1 twin linked las cannon off my dread i destroyed hir raider, and with the other TL las i destroyed his rhino, so just toss and pray

nirvana69 wrote:This whole game is based n lucky dice rolls... i was fighting chaos and with 1 twin linked las cannon off my dread i destroyed hir raider, and with the other TL las i destroyed his rhino, so just toss and pray

TL-Lascannon VS AV14:- 32/648, 4.9%
TL-Lascannon VS AV11:- 128/648 19.8%
and doing both is only .9%

Luck may happen but don't count on it.

If you're playing a MEQ army, your best bet is having a good variety between Melta weapons and Lascannons. A Vindicators Demolisher Cannon would be good too.

Melta Weapons are fairly easy to acquire, from your average Tactical Squad, to Dreadnoughts, Bike Squads, and Land Speeders. A Land Speeder with 2 MM's will only run you 80 points, and I find them very reliable in all of the games I've played.

Vindicators are good with a Str 10 Ordnance hit too. Only down side is the possibility of scattering. Keep in mind when you building a list, you want to have some a good variety of weapons that can deal with most types of models (ie - Infantry, Tanks, etc).

Power Fists and Thunder Hammers are okay at best, since the best they can manage is a Glancing Hit. Chain Fists get you a Melta Bomb equivalent hit, so if you run Terminators, those are a possible option.

I personally like running fast moving Melta weapons (ie - Bike Squads and Land Speeders). Give them a try if you have access to any of them.

Good luck!

Rurouni Benshin wrote:Vindicators are good with a Str 10 Ordnance hit too. Only down side is the possibility of scattering.

The scatter is not that much of a problem considering the size of a LR, which is something like 4x6. As long as you can place the template directly in the center of the LR, it hits 1/3 of the time and the other 2/3 of the time it hits half of the time as it is. That is roughly BS4, while having the added benefit of being a template that can hit multiple targets at once. S10 will damage AV11 on a 6+ when the hit is secondary (it either hits with the hole or the actual blast). It is AP2 so Meq and Teq need to be very careful in it's presence and it can insta-gib anything T5 or less, lacking eternal warrior.

Did I mention it can avoid conferring cover saves due to being ordinance? Yeah, Demolisher cannons are pretty bad-ass.

Keep in mind when you building a list, you want to have some a good variety of weapons that can deal with most types of models (ie - Infantry, Tanks, etc).

I would take it for this reason and not for the fact that it can do quite well against a LR specifically. There are weapons (meltas mainly) that are no less than designed to take on heavy tanks and it seems a waste to use something that is necessarily subpar in that role. 10 plus D6 is less effective than 8 plus 2d6. Two dice is just more better, even if the potential lies in the fact that you will often find the results to be overkill on a point that has no direct benefits to perform thus. The average on one D6 is 3.5, while the average on 2d6 is 6.5. An average of 3.5 where no such result can exist, means that you're going to end up with a 1/2 chance to fail even when you roll the average.

A 1,2,3/4,5,6 chance is worse than a 1,2,3,4,5,6/repeat chance. Meltas are better at the job and even if LC are not as effective they are still likely to perform better than a template due to the units they are usually found on, and their range. Your average will be along the lines of a 6/7 with 2d6, instead of a 3/4 on a D6.

Meltas > Lascannons > High strength templates. Prioritize your weapons against the LR in that order, and you should do very well.

mwnciboo wrote:My MM LS was my great white hope, but it was shredded in 1st turn after turbo boosting across the board....I think you are right, i went for anti infantry when I should have gone for Anti-Armour and heavy infantry. What is wrong with a CMD Squad? It did well, versus a Bike unit and annihilated a Deathwing Termie Squad (2 x Plasma guns, 1xMeltagun + FNP Apoth) and was still intact at the end of the game. My Sternguard Squad was quite good for 5 man squad ( Combi plasma, Meltas and Flamers!). I killed everything else, except BELIAL (sic) and his CC Terminator Squad hiding in the bloody LAND RAIDER. Fair point on the Whirlwind, i might drop it for a Razorback (Twin Las) and another Landspeeder!

This is response to the command squad: If its on the board, it can get shot up, (though with FNP or 3+ storm shield savel, rather tough). If its in a transport, it can't assault the turn it jumps out unless you are in a raider of your own. On top of that, they are rather expensive, requiring a captain, and a large list of expensive wargear (well you can take normal kit, but that defeats the purpose of being a killy squad) Beating down a normal bike squad isn't that hard, if you can deal with the T5. Killing DA termies isn't that hard, since they can't take the current storm shield. They are rather easy to kill with power weapons, and don't like it when you bring a better invul save.

Now biker command squads... Good god they are nasty. Long assault range, poweful shooting, still very dangerous and tough in CC. T5 with FNP and the option of taking 3+ invul... sure it costs 500+ points (including cost of captain), but its actually worth it in the right list.

mwnciboo wrote:I have just had a 2000pt battle vs a DEATHWING Army. The LANDRAIDER was annoying and it just would not die, PF and Melta bombs! I hit it 6 x with ML KRAK and hit it with Twin Linked Las x3, MM x 3 and Meltagun hits x3. Surely to god, statistically it would be hammered. I managed one glancing hit with TELION using a Sniper Rifle man and managed a shaken result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please if anyone can offer any advice on a good Landraider Killing setup as I am sick of them!

(MELTA BOMBS 8 + 2D6 and it still would not die!!!!!!!)

Bad luck pure and simple. Everybody has days where their luck turns sour, the trick is not to let it frustrate you into engaging in bad tactics that are secondary to bad luck.

6 Melta shots alone should have slagged it. MM & Melta guns have a >50% chance of a penetrating hit if they are within the 2D6 range, but if they are out of double dice penetration range it's not even worth taking the shot.

If you lost the game it was because bad luck lead you into bad tactics, which is like pouring gasoline on a fire. Hitting a land raider with 6 Krak missiles is a waste of Krak, and the lascannons and sniper fire should have been directed at other targets. When fighting a land raider the only thing that should ever shoot at it in an army like yours is melta guns. If the lascannons don't slag the land raider leave it alone and use your Krak missiles, Lascannons, Sniper fire, and Demolisher cannons to kill the rest of the army. The small likelihood of success that they can have against a land raider is not worth giving up the large likelihood of success that those weapons have against the rest of the army. When meltaguns fail to slag a land raider the worst possible thing a player can do is to get frustrated with the land raider and start dumping krak (1/6 chance to glance) or lascannons (1/6 to pen, 1/6 to glance) into a land raider leaving the rest of the enemy army untouched.